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> Experts say government offices prefer faxes because they generate paperwork onto which bureaucrats can affix their stamps of approval, called hanko. This is

by Zikes 12y ago

> Experts say government offices prefer faxes because they generate paperwork onto which bureaucrats can affix their stamps of approval, called hanko. This is likely a much more key point to the article than it lets on. In much of Japan's society, the physical personalized stamp is used in the same way the West uses signatures, and not just within the bureaucracy. More information: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqeuM3vo3GU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqeuM3vo3GU

galago 12y ago
Wow,this gives real insight into why they may be more attached to hard copy. Sometimes traditional techniques maintain order, stability and arguably security at the expense of expediency and efficiency. I wonder how technologies are evolving to incorporate some of these traditions.
allendoerfer 12y ago
Same in Germany. Letters sent by fax legally count as "written" correspondence while email does not. I am 23 and I can remember times, when I (theoretically) had to cryptographically sign a PDF to send even an invoice by email. In private homes fax machines are the exception but in businesses of every size, they are still pretty common. Our chancellor famously said in 2013 "The internet is new land for all of us." [0] We keep inventing technologies like De-Mail [1] or the chip on our ID card [2] to authenticates you online - if you could only find a services that implements the protocol and you would have the required card reader. I guess most of this audience would not even understand the need for an offline ID card … Focus on security is a good thing - especially when I read stories about how criminals claim refunds from other people's IRS accounts in the US, but email is in no way easier hackable for the average person than postal letters are. And postal addresses will not give you unique identification either. I also love when I ask the German version of the IRS a quick question by email and get the answer back by postal letter with my email printed and attached to it. Gives me the warm feeling, that you can count on some things to stay the same. :D [0]: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/neuland http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/neuland [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De-Mail http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De-Mail [2]: http://www.personalausweisportal.de/EN/Citizens/Electronic-Identification/Electronic-Identification_node.html http://www.personalausweisportal.de/EN/Citizens/Electronic-I...
- akoeplinger 12y ago
  I'm a bit surprised that you don't seem to have an equivalent of the Handysignatur [0] (eID based on mobile phone) we have in Austria. It's getting more and more popular here, I guess because all you need is a mobile phone (who has a card reader after all?). I find it incredibly convenient as it gives you immediate access to a growing list of e-government services [1], as well as signing PDFs and even things like a service for cancelling subscriptions online [2]. [0]: https://www.handy-signatur.at/hs2/home.aspx?language=en https://www.handy-signatur.at/hs2/home.aspx?language=en [1]: https://www.handy-signatur.at/hs2/?site=infos/applications https://www.handy-signatur.at/hs2/?site=infos/applications [2]: http://www.online-kuendigen.at/ http://www.online-kuendigen.at/
  - allendoerfer 12y ago
    Correct me if I am wrong, but these services seem to be designed by the private sector for people to use, while the government implements it, where it makes sense. Meanwhile in Germany these services are designed by the government and implemented by the private sector and are therefore hopelessly outdated and bureaucratic. Handy-signatur.at seems very convenient. You know, something must be wrong, when even Austria is moving faster than you ;-) I guess our most realistic bet to get something like this to work here is to count on the European Integration and wait for other systems to take over.
anabis 12y ago
The importance of the hanko(seal) probably comes from China. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heirloom_Seal_of_the_Realm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heirloom_Seal_of_the_Realm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_Na_gold_seal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_Na_gold_seal

by Zikes 12y ago

galago 12y ago

Wow,this gives real insight into why they may be more attached to hard copy. Sometimes traditional techniques maintain order, stability and arguably security at the expense of expediency and efficiency. I wonder how technologies are evolving to incorporate some of these traditions.

allendoerfer 12y ago

Same in Germany. Letters sent by fax legally count as "written" correspondence while email does not. I am 23 and I can remember times, when I (theoretically) had to cryptographically sign a PDF to send even an invoice by email. In private homes fax machines are the exception but in businesses of every size, they are still pretty common. Our chancellor famously said in 2013 "The internet is new land for all of us." [0] We keep inventing technologies like De-Mail [1] or the chip on our ID card [2] to authenticates you online - if you could only find a services that implements the protocol and you would have the required card reader. I guess most of this audience would not even understand the need for an offline ID card … Focus on security is a good thing - especially when I read stories about how criminals claim refunds from other people's IRS accounts in the US, but email is in no way easier hackable for the average person than postal letters are. And postal addresses will not give you unique identification either. I also love when I ask the German version of the IRS a quick question by email and get the answer back by postal letter with my email printed and attached to it. Gives me the warm feeling, that you can count on some things to stay the same. :D [0]: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/neuland http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/neuland [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De-Mail http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De-Mail [2]: http://www.personalausweisportal.de/EN/Citizens/Electronic-Identification/Electronic-Identification_node.html http://www.personalausweisportal.de/EN/Citizens/Electronic-I...

akoeplinger 12y ago
I'm a bit surprised that you don't seem to have an equivalent of the Handysignatur [0] (eID based on mobile phone) we have in Austria. It's getting more and more popular here, I guess because all you need is a mobile phone (who has a card reader after all?). I find it incredibly convenient as it gives you immediate access to a growing list of e-government services [1], as well as signing PDFs and even things like a service for cancelling subscriptions online [2]. [0]: https://www.handy-signatur.at/hs2/home.aspx?language=en https://www.handy-signatur.at/hs2/home.aspx?language=en [1]: https://www.handy-signatur.at/hs2/?site=infos/applications https://www.handy-signatur.at/hs2/?site=infos/applications [2]: http://www.online-kuendigen.at/ http://www.online-kuendigen.at/
- allendoerfer 12y ago
  Correct me if I am wrong, but these services seem to be designed by the private sector for people to use, while the government implements it, where it makes sense. Meanwhile in Germany these services are designed by the government and implemented by the private sector and are therefore hopelessly outdated and bureaucratic. Handy-signatur.at seems very convenient. You know, something must be wrong, when even Austria is moving faster than you ;-) I guess our most realistic bet to get something like this to work here is to count on the European Integration and wait for other systems to take over.

anabis 12y ago

The importance of the hanko(seal) probably comes from China. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heirloom_Seal_of_the_Realm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heirloom_Seal_of_the_Realm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_Na_gold_seal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_Na_gold_seal