5 ms·

How is this not a win for Reddit and a loss for new hires? I have often heard, and seen first hand, that you can easy take home 20k+ more, just by ask for it du

How is this not a win for Reddit and a loss for new hires? I have often heard, and seen first hand, that you can easy take home 20k+ more, just by ask for it during the hiring process. It is in the employers best interest, to low ball you, and lock you into making less money. Is this just a negotiation tactic, saying that they do not negotiate, maybe...

marssaxman 12y ago
This is a win for new hires who wouldn't have negotiated anyway, because now the playing field is a little more level.
- dcole2929 12y ago
  I think in this case they mean new to the new company, not new in the sense of Jr employees. The best time to negotiate your salary is probably when you are first being hired.
  - marssaxman 12y ago
    Right, but that creates a compensation differential between people who are comfortable negotiating for more money and people who are not. The point of this no-negotiation policy is that it eliminates a bias toward rewarding negotiation-oriented employees more than non-negotiating hires, despite the fact that they are doing no extra work and creating no extra value for the company. The company has to present a competitive offer up front if they want to attract good staff.
- rhino369 12y ago
  It's a win for those who wouldn't negotiate because Reddit will have to estimate fair market value if they want to hire someone. Instead of talking the first low ball offer, they'll get what reddit thinks they are really worth. Which is still probably lower than what they could have negotiated.
spcoll 12y ago
I see it more as leveling the playing field. Women are less aggressive and ruthless in negotiations, and that contributes to the staggering pay gap we see in tech and elsewhere. This gap needs to end, and such a measure might well prove effective. Such a measure will also mean that aggressive salary negotiators will go elsewhere after their attempts at negotiation are rejected by Reddit HR. Since these people are almost always male, that's a win. It will result in a workplace with less men : )
- 2xlbuds 12y ago
  Would you rather have a world when the pay gap is lessened by making men make less money, or by making women make more money? Because this is the former, and it's not good for anyone except for Reddit's bottom line.
  - greenyoda 12y ago
    In the long run, it may not even be good for Reddit. The best job candidates (both male and female) will probably receive several competing job offers, and if the other companies are willing to negotiate salary while Reddit isn't, Reddit could end up losing all the best candidates to their competitors.
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    If they are eliminating negotiation, them either their offers need to be better than before or they'll lose talent. I suspect that the result of this will be people with less negotiating skill making more money in jobs where the skill is irrelevant to job duties and people with more negotiating skill making less than now in the same jobs at reddit. It won't be one side, and it won't particularly be about gender except to the extent that gender happens to correspond with negotiating skill and/or desire to have negotiation be part of the hiring process (the later more affecting who decides to apply to reddit in the first place.)
- RexRollman 12y ago
  The goal should not be to hire more of any particular gender. The goal should be to hire the best, most qualified people (although I believe it is okay to use diversity as a factor if one has to choose between two identically qualified applicants). Eliminating salary negoiation just because woman are not good at is stupid. It baby's them.
2xlbuds 12y ago
This is absolutely true, in my very first job out of college I turned down the initial offer and asked for more money, they gave me 7500 more base salary, and by my first eligible performance review I got a 7.5% raise on my base salary. Always negotiate, it can only help you.
serve_yay 12y ago
If they're really, really doing this, hats off to them. But you know... there's usually a way. Like maybe they can't budge on the salary number, but maybe a hiring bonus gets a little larger, stock grants/options a little bigger... Like I said, if they're really doing this, that's great. But are they really committed enough to this to let a great candidate go when the non-negotiable number is too low? Is this just for peon-level employees, or executives too? That's the real test.
- MetaCosm 12y ago
  Reddit might be a unique case because of "passion hires" -- like gaming studios. People will take far less than market rate if they are working on a project they are passionate about. That said, I suspect "outside signaling" will become a huge thing. You tell your recruiter you need $X, your recruiter tells Reddit that you need $X, you get offered $X, how convenient for both you and Reddit! On the executive side, over dinner you discuss what it would take you to leave your current company -- of course, not negotiating, just two people talking -- and low and behold, the offer will be exactly what was discussed, of course, no negotiating.
  - fweespeech 12y ago
    I'm not sure Reddit truly qualifies as a "passion hire" environment anymore to be perfectly honest. They've been subtly undermining the original promise of the site in various ways. /r/Undelete is a good example of one symptom of the problem. They need to figure out a different way of structuring Reddit's moderation and stop trying to sugar coat things that are clearly financial decisions. The timing of the announcement seems more angled to cash in on sympathy for Ellen Pao than it is an honest desire to "solve" the salary negotiation gap. She has been working with Reddit since 2013, after all. If it was born from honest desire, they'd have done it sooner and they'd do it like Buffer does [with a transparent salary position list]. The way they've done it they can still pretend there is no negotiation even when they've created a clear loophole for them to make "exceptions". This isn't so much to attack the way this was handled but more to point out Reddit now engages in the kind of corporate doublespeak that people who are passionate seek to avoid.

marssaxman 12y ago

This is a win for new hires who wouldn't have negotiated anyway, because now the playing field is a little more level.

dcole2929 12y ago
I think in this case they mean new to the new company, not new in the sense of Jr employees. The best time to negotiate your salary is probably when you are first being hired.
- marssaxman 12y ago
  Right, but that creates a compensation differential between people who are comfortable negotiating for more money and people who are not. The point of this no-negotiation policy is that it eliminates a bias toward rewarding negotiation-oriented employees more than non-negotiating hires, despite the fact that they are doing no extra work and creating no extra value for the company. The company has to present a competitive offer up front if they want to attract good staff.
rhino369 12y ago
It's a win for those who wouldn't negotiate because Reddit will have to estimate fair market value if they want to hire someone. Instead of talking the first low ball offer, they'll get what reddit thinks they are really worth. Which is still probably lower than what they could have negotiated.

spcoll 12y ago

I see it more as leveling the playing field. Women are less aggressive and ruthless in negotiations, and that contributes to the staggering pay gap we see in tech and elsewhere. This gap needs to end, and such a measure might well prove effective. Such a measure will also mean that aggressive salary negotiators will go elsewhere after their attempts at negotiation are rejected by Reddit HR. Since these people are almost always male, that's a win. It will result in a workplace with less men : )

2xlbuds 12y ago
Would you rather have a world when the pay gap is lessened by making men make less money, or by making women make more money? Because this is the former, and it's not good for anyone except for Reddit's bottom line.
- greenyoda 12y ago
  In the long run, it may not even be good for Reddit. The best job candidates (both male and female) will probably receive several competing job offers, and if the other companies are willing to negotiate salary while Reddit isn't, Reddit could end up losing all the best candidates to their competitors.
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  If they are eliminating negotiation, them either their offers need to be better than before or they'll lose talent. I suspect that the result of this will be people with less negotiating skill making more money in jobs where the skill is irrelevant to job duties and people with more negotiating skill making less than now in the same jobs at reddit. It won't be one side, and it won't particularly be about gender except to the extent that gender happens to correspond with negotiating skill and/or desire to have negotiation be part of the hiring process (the later more affecting who decides to apply to reddit in the first place.)
RexRollman 12y ago
The goal should not be to hire more of any particular gender. The goal should be to hire the best, most qualified people (although I believe it is okay to use diversity as a factor if one has to choose between two identically qualified applicants). Eliminating salary negoiation just because woman are not good at is stupid. It baby's them.

2xlbuds 12y ago

This is absolutely true, in my very first job out of college I turned down the initial offer and asked for more money, they gave me 7500 more base salary, and by my first eligible performance review I got a 7.5% raise on my base salary. Always negotiate, it can only help you.

serve_yay 12y ago

If they're really, really doing this, hats off to them. But you know... there's usually a way. Like maybe they can't budge on the salary number, but maybe a hiring bonus gets a little larger, stock grants/options a little bigger... Like I said, if they're really doing this, that's great. But are they really committed enough to this to let a great candidate go when the non-negotiable number is too low? Is this just for peon-level employees, or executives too? That's the real test.

MetaCosm 12y ago
Reddit might be a unique case because of "passion hires" -- like gaming studios. People will take far less than market rate if they are working on a project they are passionate about. That said, I suspect "outside signaling" will become a huge thing. You tell your recruiter you need $X, your recruiter tells Reddit that you need $X, you get offered $X, how convenient for both you and Reddit! On the executive side, over dinner you discuss what it would take you to leave your current company -- of course, not negotiating, just two people talking -- and low and behold, the offer will be exactly what was discussed, of course, no negotiating.
- fweespeech 12y ago
  I'm not sure Reddit truly qualifies as a "passion hire" environment anymore to be perfectly honest. They've been subtly undermining the original promise of the site in various ways. /r/Undelete is a good example of one symptom of the problem. They need to figure out a different way of structuring Reddit's moderation and stop trying to sugar coat things that are clearly financial decisions. The timing of the announcement seems more angled to cash in on sympathy for Ellen Pao than it is an honest desire to "solve" the salary negotiation gap. She has been working with Reddit since 2013, after all. If it was born from honest desire, they'd have done it sooner and they'd do it like Buffer does [with a transparent salary position list]. The way they've done it they can still pretend there is no negotiation even when they've created a clear loophole for them to make "exceptions". This isn't so much to attack the way this was handled but more to point out Reddit now engages in the kind of corporate doublespeak that people who are passionate seek to avoid.