4 ms·

>Are you perhaps working for the US equivalent of 50 cent army? Didn't we just hear about a new HN policy to limit trolling, snotty comments, and low informati

>Are you perhaps working for the US equivalent of 50 cent army? Didn't we just hear about a new HN policy to limit trolling, snotty comments, and low information negativity like this? This snide aside here is a good test case to see if these new policies have any teeth. I would expect this comment deleted by the mods. Accusing other members of being paid-for shills merely because they disagree with you is trolling and only hurts discussion.

krapp 12y ago
There are a number of users here who honestly believe that criticism of Snowden is the work of NSA agents and paid shills - so of course they feel their accusations are not at all gratuitously negative, but rather warning people not to be duped by the elaborate and subtle government psy-ops at work. Then again, I can't help but wonder why people bother asking if someone else is a shill, as if they honestly expect an actual shill to admit to it. Probably the same people who think undercover cops actually have to admit who they are if you ask them.
- im2w1l 12y ago
  I can see it serving to purposes. 1. It lets 3rd parties know you are suspicious. 2. You may get a revealing denial/non-denial. That said though I really dislike the atmosphere created by frequent shill accusations. It seems to rapidly create an echo chamber, where minority opinions are dismissed.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - krapp 12y ago
    I'm not entirely certain those are valuable goals, though. '3rd parties' who spend any amount of time here are perfectly aware of that a pro government, anti-Snowden point of view won't be popular. I doubt they would turn tail if someone suspected their presence. And arguably, false positives and arguments about whether or not someone is a shill work in favor of actual shills. Notice how nobody ever seems to accuse the people making those accusations of having ulterior motives, despite the fact that a false flag strategy of deflecting attention to innocent accounts and derailing threads would be a much smarter strategy on their part than sockpuppet accounts making obviously noticeable propagandic statements.
superobserver 12y ago
I agree that unfounded accusations are unhealthy for discussion, but the nature of the issue at hand involving a state-level power with nigh unlimited resources and the few citizens within the state body attempting to bring attention to this issue would suggest that suspicions of this sort aren't unfounded and aren't necessarily damaging to the discussion itself. Censoring discussion of this kind is probably the most hurtful of all and no comment pointing out the possibility of the level of control at hand should be removed on that account.
- oldmanjay 12y ago
  I disagree entirely. Accusing someone of shilling doesn't contribute meaningfully unless it can be proved, and proved with damning evidence. Anything else is rhetorical bluster meant to distract and has no place in a discussion.
  - superobserver 12y ago
    I didn't say a baseless accusation is legitimate, I said that suggesting such a possibility is legitimate, especially in this case.
shkkmo 12y ago
Yet, the parent comment is the one that gets flagged...what? I fall on the 'Snowden is a hero' side of the fence, but I don't see what got that comment flagged.

krapp 12y ago

There are a number of users here who honestly believe that criticism of Snowden is the work of NSA agents and paid shills - so of course they feel their accusations are not at all gratuitously negative, but rather warning people not to be duped by the elaborate and subtle government psy-ops at work. Then again, I can't help but wonder why people bother asking if someone else is a shill, as if they honestly expect an actual shill to admit to it. Probably the same people who think undercover cops actually have to admit who they are if you ask them.

im2w1l 12y ago
I can see it serving to purposes. 1. It lets 3rd parties know you are suspicious. 2. You may get a revealing denial/non-denial. That said though I really dislike the atmosphere created by frequent shill accusations. It seems to rapidly create an echo chamber, where minority opinions are dismissed.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- krapp 12y ago
  I'm not entirely certain those are valuable goals, though. '3rd parties' who spend any amount of time here are perfectly aware of that a pro government, anti-Snowden point of view won't be popular. I doubt they would turn tail if someone suspected their presence. And arguably, false positives and arguments about whether or not someone is a shill work in favor of actual shills. Notice how nobody ever seems to accuse the people making those accusations of having ulterior motives, despite the fact that a false flag strategy of deflecting attention to innocent accounts and derailing threads would be a much smarter strategy on their part than sockpuppet accounts making obviously noticeable propagandic statements.

superobserver 12y ago

I agree that unfounded accusations are unhealthy for discussion, but the nature of the issue at hand involving a state-level power with nigh unlimited resources and the few citizens within the state body attempting to bring attention to this issue would suggest that suspicions of this sort aren't unfounded and aren't necessarily damaging to the discussion itself. Censoring discussion of this kind is probably the most hurtful of all and no comment pointing out the possibility of the level of control at hand should be removed on that account.

oldmanjay 12y ago
I disagree entirely. Accusing someone of shilling doesn't contribute meaningfully unless it can be proved, and proved with damning evidence. Anything else is rhetorical bluster meant to distract and has no place in a discussion.
- superobserver 12y ago
  I didn't say a baseless accusation is legitimate, I said that suggesting such a possibility is legitimate, especially in this case.

shkkmo 12y ago

Yet, the parent comment is the one that gets flagged...what? I fall on the 'Snowden is a hero' side of the fence, but I don't see what got that comment flagged.