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I'm the guy who offered the bounty, and for us (webflow.com) it's not about styling scrollbars on ordinary websites - it's about making sure application user in

I'm the guy who offered the bounty, and for us (webflow.com) it's not about styling scrollbars on ordinary websites - it's about making sure application user interfaces are consistent across browsers. Take a look at this comparison between Chrome and Firefox: https://cloudup.com/c8K9RMqPeDn https://cloudup.com/c8K9RMqPeDn Webkit's ability to style scrollbars gives app developers a ton more control over a user interface. Some advantages of Webkit over Firefox here: * Custom styling without hacky JavaScript "fake scroll" scripts * Control over the width of a scrollbar * Better usability for certain use cases by enabling Up and Down buttons * Scrollbars actually look like they belong inside the application * Doesn't remind users that they're in a web browser In my 15+ years of building websites, I never wanted to change the color of the browser scroll bar either. But now I'm building a website that builds websites, so it's a whole 'nother ball game :)

SwellJoe 12y ago
"Custom styling without hacky JavaScript "fake scroll" scripts" You've convinced me. I did have someone once send me a design patch that used a JavaScript scrolly implementation, and I found it repulsive on every level, and I immediately rolled back the change and made it clear we would never ship anything like that, ever. I'm glad you're in a position to motivate someone to implement it with cold hard cash, and I hope it works out.
popnfreshspk 12y ago
I question the necessity of having to make scroll bars consistent across browsers. Seeing as how most people only use one browser (data collected out of thin air), wouldn't changing the native styling on a browser scrollbar be confusing for people expecting the native styling?
- callmevlad 12y ago
  Please take a look at the screenshot I posted: https://cloudup.com/c8K9RMqPeDn https://cloudup.com/c8K9RMqPeDn Assuming you were using Firefox, what would you think about those two white scrollbars that stick out like a sore thumb in a dark interface?
  - TheLoneWolfling 12y ago
    First off, that doesn't work without JS. I mean really: It's a couple of screenshots. Secondly, I prefer it. Far too many websites adjust things to the point where it's impossible to actually see. (Case in point: link styling. To the point where I have bookmarklets to remove styling from pages.) I understand having the option to do so. But at the same time, I wouldn't use said option. To me, readability > aesthetics. And far too many websites don't respect that. Please read JS;DR: http://tantek.com/2015/069/t1/js-dr-javascript-required-dead http://tantek.com/2015/069/t1/js-dr-javascript-required-dead
    - scrollaway 12y ago
      Er, what? You need to start differenciating between "documents" and "applications". What GP linked is a full-blown application. There's no "non-javascript" version of it. I have been watching comments here and it is absolutely infuriating how it's very obviously armchair designers with zero experience in the field who are yelling out "aesthetics don't matter, scrollbars should always look like my system's scrollbars". First of all, that is a ridiculous statement. On Linux for example there is no "system scrollbars", the styling is up to the toolkit and it is different in every single web browser out there. There's no consistency to be had across applications. Second of all, every other toolkit element can be styled. Buttons. Dropdown menus. Text fields. Everything. They can all be styled not so your "documents" will be less readable, but so that developers and designers are empowered to create applications that look good, feel fluid, native, consistent. They can be styled because applications can be more than just 20-input field forms. Native applications have the power to style their scrollbars (and they do so all the time), so web applications need it too to match such capabilities. We're not talking about an unused feature here. And to those complaining about scrolling behaviour, accessibility etc: Those are the exact reasons why we need scrollbar styling. Because when your company is hounding you to have scrollbars that don't look out of place on a major browser "and look, our competition does it", you're realistically not just going to tell them "well, uh, readability is important". You're going to use fake, pure-js scrollers and accessibility will suffer. Everybody loses. This isn't about purple scrollbars for your text documents.
TheLoneWolfling 12y ago
For anyone else who doesn't want to suffer through yet another unnecessary web application: http://imgur.com/a/mkbHB http://imgur.com/a/mkbHB

SwellJoe 12y ago

"Custom styling without hacky JavaScript "fake scroll" scripts" You've convinced me. I did have someone once send me a design patch that used a JavaScript scrolly implementation, and I found it repulsive on every level, and I immediately rolled back the change and made it clear we would never ship anything like that, ever. I'm glad you're in a position to motivate someone to implement it with cold hard cash, and I hope it works out.

popnfreshspk 12y ago

I question the necessity of having to make scroll bars consistent across browsers. Seeing as how most people only use one browser (data collected out of thin air), wouldn't changing the native styling on a browser scrollbar be confusing for people expecting the native styling?

callmevlad 12y ago
Please take a look at the screenshot I posted: https://cloudup.com/c8K9RMqPeDn https://cloudup.com/c8K9RMqPeDn Assuming you were using Firefox, what would you think about those two white scrollbars that stick out like a sore thumb in a dark interface?
- TheLoneWolfling 12y ago
  First off, that doesn't work without JS. I mean really: It's a couple of screenshots. Secondly, I prefer it. Far too many websites adjust things to the point where it's impossible to actually see. (Case in point: link styling. To the point where I have bookmarklets to remove styling from pages.) I understand having the option to do so. But at the same time, I wouldn't use said option. To me, readability > aesthetics. And far too many websites don't respect that. Please read JS;DR: http://tantek.com/2015/069/t1/js-dr-javascript-required-dead http://tantek.com/2015/069/t1/js-dr-javascript-required-dead
  - scrollaway 12y ago
    Er, what? You need to start differenciating between "documents" and "applications". What GP linked is a full-blown application. There's no "non-javascript" version of it. I have been watching comments here and it is absolutely infuriating how it's very obviously armchair designers with zero experience in the field who are yelling out "aesthetics don't matter, scrollbars should always look like my system's scrollbars". First of all, that is a ridiculous statement. On Linux for example there is no "system scrollbars", the styling is up to the toolkit and it is different in every single web browser out there. There's no consistency to be had across applications. Second of all, every other toolkit element can be styled. Buttons. Dropdown menus. Text fields. Everything. They can all be styled not so your "documents" will be less readable, but so that developers and designers are empowered to create applications that look good, feel fluid, native, consistent. They can be styled because applications can be more than just 20-input field forms. Native applications have the power to style their scrollbars (and they do so all the time), so web applications need it too to match such capabilities. We're not talking about an unused feature here. And to those complaining about scrolling behaviour, accessibility etc: Those are the exact reasons why we need scrollbar styling. Because when your company is hounding you to have scrollbars that don't look out of place on a major browser "and look, our competition does it", you're realistically not just going to tell them "well, uh, readability is important". You're going to use fake, pure-js scrollers and accessibility will suffer. Everybody loses. This isn't about purple scrollbars for your text documents.

TheLoneWolfling 12y ago

For anyone else who doesn't want to suffer through yet another unnecessary web application: http://imgur.com/a/mkbHB http://imgur.com/a/mkbHB