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This seems slightly sensational to me. I thought maybe it was because the author would view me as Junior, but then I saw his other post and it just doesn't appl

by sb8244 12y ago

This seems slightly sensational to me. I thought maybe it was because the author would view me as Junior, but then I saw his other post and it just doesn't apply at all. In fact, I felt even more strongly after reading his explanation article. Why I don't like the article: * Very vague about actual issues and instead a lot of generalizations. Even the explanation article isn't very helpful. * No real concrete code backing his examples. * Generalization that having any logic in views is a bad thing. (ng-if and ng-hide is all you really need in a view and it isn't bad if used responsibly!) I've only been served well by Angular. I find it's flexibility to be exceptional, and has blended almost perfectly with our Rails pipeline and API. We have a pretty large codebase with it and integration with legacy javascript. It just works. Performance is a real concern and is one of the reasons we haven't ported a large legacy view to Angular, but I think we could solve this if we really saw value in porting it over at this point.

zarriak 12y ago
A lot of the post has more to do with js itself. The author talks about performance, but never addresses the fact that most juniors probably started in Python or Ruby. They didn't have to care about doing things the most efficient way, and could probably just use a framework to do what they wanted to do without caring about implementation. This lack of concern is not rectified by any of the senior engineers, and only appears once they are required to do something outside of a framework that provides decent performance. I don't want to come across as rude, but it seems strange that hiring a junior developer and introducing them to web development doesn't come with a guide on what to do or how to approach js. I don't quite understand how researching deep enough into Angular to find out about performance tweaks doesn't lead one to make a guide or tips for new hires. Sure, you can hope that they know what they are doing, but if you care enough to stop using a framework due to their bad habits it might be time to reflect and realize that the power given by a framework comes with more abilities and more pitfalls. This trade off is clearly demonstrated when the author talks about the "pit[s]" that junior engineers fall into. They look at code and see it works for one use and just use it in the other case because they have seen it work. It isn't all their fault that they are "very good at copy and pasting" because nobody has told them the steps to guide their code structure. I appreciate the author for sharing his views but it seems like it would be helpful to provide the list of pitfalls and ways to avoid them to his juniors instead of disliking frameworks.
- robertthegrey 12y ago
  I disagree - most of this post I wrote has very little to do with JavaScript itself and everything to do with Angular. Likewise, I don't want to come across as rude, but I also don't want words put in my mouth. The performance issues with Angular are not fiction, they are very real concerns. Hence the sheer number of tutorials popping up lately showing you how to use React in your Angular apps to improved the rendering performance plus a number of other hacks I'd prefer my juniors steer clear of. It's also got nothing to do with the juniors coming from Python or Ruby, in fact most of mine started on Java and Erlang or are self taught, but I've had very little trouble with bad habits creeping in to projects with those same juniors when using frameworks like backbone, ember and react (so far) - so once again, it has very little to do with pitfalls in JavaScript and more to do with pitfalls in Angular itself - at least, that has been the case IME.

by sb8244 12y ago

zarriak 12y ago

A lot of the post has more to do with js itself. The author talks about performance, but never addresses the fact that most juniors probably started in Python or Ruby. They didn't have to care about doing things the most efficient way, and could probably just use a framework to do what they wanted to do without caring about implementation. This lack of concern is not rectified by any of the senior engineers, and only appears once they are required to do something outside of a framework that provides decent performance. I don't want to come across as rude, but it seems strange that hiring a junior developer and introducing them to web development doesn't come with a guide on what to do or how to approach js. I don't quite understand how researching deep enough into Angular to find out about performance tweaks doesn't lead one to make a guide or tips for new hires. Sure, you can hope that they know what they are doing, but if you care enough to stop using a framework due to their bad habits it might be time to reflect and realize that the power given by a framework comes with more abilities and more pitfalls. This trade off is clearly demonstrated when the author talks about the "pit[s]" that junior engineers fall into. They look at code and see it works for one use and just use it in the other case because they have seen it work. It isn't all their fault that they are "very good at copy and pasting" because nobody has told them the steps to guide their code structure. I appreciate the author for sharing his views but it seems like it would be helpful to provide the list of pitfalls and ways to avoid them to his juniors instead of disliking frameworks.

robertthegrey 12y ago
I disagree - most of this post I wrote has very little to do with JavaScript itself and everything to do with Angular. Likewise, I don't want to come across as rude, but I also don't want words put in my mouth. The performance issues with Angular are not fiction, they are very real concerns. Hence the sheer number of tutorials popping up lately showing you how to use React in your Angular apps to improved the rendering performance plus a number of other hacks I'd prefer my juniors steer clear of. It's also got nothing to do with the juniors coming from Python or Ruby, in fact most of mine started on Java and Erlang or are self taught, but I've had very little trouble with bad habits creeping in to projects with those same juniors when using frameworks like backbone, ember and react (so far) - so once again, it has very little to do with pitfalls in JavaScript and more to do with pitfalls in Angular itself - at least, that has been the case IME.