6 ms·

What makes the ankle exo so effective is its simplicity

58 points by rilut 12y ago

rilut 12y ago
Here's the link for the paper: Nature: Reducing the energy cost of human walking using an unpowered exoskeleton http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature14288.html http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/natu...
dang 12y ago
This was discussed at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9315424 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9315424. This one is different enough not to be treated as a duplicate, but we did change the title to a more informative sentence from the article.
- araes 12y ago
  On the topic of dupes, within HNs Parent relationships, would it be possible to create a meta-dupe tree? Basically, a meta-list above articles that adds dupes (or maybe just closely related) as quasi-children of the "best" or "highest comments" or whatever version of the article. If an article had a parent you could just keep goin up to find the old one.
  - dang 12y ago
    I'm not sure exactly what UI you have in mind, but yes, we do eventually want to have some kind of related-story grouping.
    - blahedo 12y ago
      Some ideas I had about that a couple years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1975950 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1975950
wherkewitz 12y ago
Fucking. Sweet. I actually wrote this story!!
- wherkewitz 12y ago
  Also: Everyone should know this. There are still huge issues that need to be figured out before this becomes a commercial product. The 7% figure is bound to change depending on the speed you walk at (diff. speeds will likely require springs with diff. stiffnesses for optimal efficiency). Both Steve and Greg talked about future incarnations that could switch between multiple springs. ...and I didn't write that headline, or the dek (the thing under the head)
  - maxerickson 12y ago
    Did you get a sense of whether it required tuning to the user? It seems like the ratchet disengaging at the right moment would be quite important to making it comfortable to use.
    - wherkewitz 12y ago
      Well, two thoughts: One.) At a set, low speed we all walk pretty much the same - at least when it comes to the movements the ratchet was picking up. Two.) Might be interesting to note that they had a pretty small sample size (n=9), and some people were getting more a benefit than others. I think one participant was up to like 10%.
    - araes 12y ago
      To do this in full production mode, I would think you would probably make it user tunable. As the article says, most of it is fairly simple. Just a spring for a cable and a ratchet that moves with the motion of your foot (kind of auto tuned), and grabs the spring. If the spring was remotely tensible, you could probably just walk and adjust it until it felt best. You could probably also do that at various speeds and then create a smooth mapping of ensuing parameters for various gaits.
pat2man 12y ago
I wonder how this compares to trekking poles.
- wherkewitz 12y ago
  Trekking poles increase your overall metabolic exertion, but make walking feel easier because your whole body (e.g. arms and shoulders) gets thrown into the motion. They're easier on the legs, harder on the whole body. (Assuming we're talking about trekking across level ground here.)
shanemhansen 12y ago
My grandfather was an engineer who suffered from a degenerative muscle disease. This exo bears a resemblance to the brace he wore to hike around the southwestern desert.
kazinator 12y ago
There exists an amazing device which dramatically increases the efficiency of body-powered locomotion, not to mention speed. However, it is more cumbersome and cannot go to all the same places as an anke exo. This device is called a "bicycle".
- jmckib 12y ago
  I feel like this is a good time to remind you of HN's new guideline to avoid gratuitous negativity. :) Maybe I'm misreading, but you seem to imply that the creators of this device have never heard of a bicycle. Does that add to the discussion? http://blog.ycombinator.com/new-hacker-news-guideline http://blog.ycombinator.com/new-hacker-news-guideline Downvoters: I'd appreciate if you would comment as well, since I can't imagine why you would downvote me for reminding someone of our community guidelines.
  - twic 12y ago
    I haven't downvoted you, but i suspect that those who have have done so because they parse your comment as identifying kazinator's comment as a negative one, and that this identification is mistaken.
    - jmckib 12y ago
      I understand. Can you explain why I'm mistaken though? His comment came off as fairly sarcastic to me, and didn't seem to contribute in any way. Surely most of us know what a bicycle is already.
      - twic 12y ago
        Sorry, i meant that to read "and they believe that this identification is mistaken". I don't understand what gratuitous negativity is, so i don't have an opinion on this myself.
  - hackuser 12y ago
    > Downvoters: I'd appreciate if you would comment as well, since I can't imagine why you would downvote me for reminding someone of our community guidelines. While sometimes necessary, the topic of community guidelines is uninteresting and disruptive to the reason we're here. In this case, IMHO, it isn't necessary to bring up. The GP merely points out that humans have been augmenting our natural locomotion for a long time; that's not a criticism of the developers.
csours 12y ago
CMU Robotics talk on this exo. Includes facts, figures and a lively discussion (75 minutes).: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j58ZP7vwcsU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j58ZP7vwcsU
kul_ 12y ago
another nice example of `less is more`.

58 points by rilut 12y ago

rilut 12y ago

Here's the link for the paper: Nature: Reducing the energy cost of human walking using an unpowered exoskeleton http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature14288.html http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/natu...

dang 12y ago

This was discussed at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9315424 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9315424. This one is different enough not to be treated as a duplicate, but we did change the title to a more informative sentence from the article.

araes 12y ago
On the topic of dupes, within HNs Parent relationships, would it be possible to create a meta-dupe tree? Basically, a meta-list above articles that adds dupes (or maybe just closely related) as quasi-children of the "best" or "highest comments" or whatever version of the article. If an article had a parent you could just keep goin up to find the old one.
- dang 12y ago
  I'm not sure exactly what UI you have in mind, but yes, we do eventually want to have some kind of related-story grouping.
  - blahedo 12y ago
    Some ideas I had about that a couple years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1975950 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1975950

wherkewitz 12y ago

Fucking. Sweet. I actually wrote this story!!

wherkewitz 12y ago
Also: Everyone should know this. There are still huge issues that need to be figured out before this becomes a commercial product. The 7% figure is bound to change depending on the speed you walk at (diff. speeds will likely require springs with diff. stiffnesses for optimal efficiency). Both Steve and Greg talked about future incarnations that could switch between multiple springs. ...and I didn't write that headline, or the dek (the thing under the head)
- maxerickson 12y ago
  Did you get a sense of whether it required tuning to the user? It seems like the ratchet disengaging at the right moment would be quite important to making it comfortable to use.
  - wherkewitz 12y ago
    Well, two thoughts: One.) At a set, low speed we all walk pretty much the same - at least when it comes to the movements the ratchet was picking up. Two.) Might be interesting to note that they had a pretty small sample size (n=9), and some people were getting more a benefit than others. I think one participant was up to like 10%.
  - araes 12y ago
    To do this in full production mode, I would think you would probably make it user tunable. As the article says, most of it is fairly simple. Just a spring for a cable and a ratchet that moves with the motion of your foot (kind of auto tuned), and grabs the spring. If the spring was remotely tensible, you could probably just walk and adjust it until it felt best. You could probably also do that at various speeds and then create a smooth mapping of ensuing parameters for various gaits.

pat2man 12y ago

I wonder how this compares to trekking poles.

wherkewitz 12y ago
Trekking poles increase your overall metabolic exertion, but make walking feel easier because your whole body (e.g. arms and shoulders) gets thrown into the motion. They're easier on the legs, harder on the whole body. (Assuming we're talking about trekking across level ground here.)

shanemhansen 12y ago

My grandfather was an engineer who suffered from a degenerative muscle disease. This exo bears a resemblance to the brace he wore to hike around the southwestern desert.

kazinator 12y ago

There exists an amazing device which dramatically increases the efficiency of body-powered locomotion, not to mention speed. However, it is more cumbersome and cannot go to all the same places as an anke exo. This device is called a "bicycle".

jmckib 12y ago
I feel like this is a good time to remind you of HN's new guideline to avoid gratuitous negativity. :) Maybe I'm misreading, but you seem to imply that the creators of this device have never heard of a bicycle. Does that add to the discussion? http://blog.ycombinator.com/new-hacker-news-guideline http://blog.ycombinator.com/new-hacker-news-guideline Downvoters: I'd appreciate if you would comment as well, since I can't imagine why you would downvote me for reminding someone of our community guidelines.
- twic 12y ago
  I haven't downvoted you, but i suspect that those who have have done so because they parse your comment as identifying kazinator's comment as a negative one, and that this identification is mistaken.
  - jmckib 12y ago
    I understand. Can you explain why I'm mistaken though? His comment came off as fairly sarcastic to me, and didn't seem to contribute in any way. Surely most of us know what a bicycle is already.
    - twic 12y ago
      Sorry, i meant that to read "and they believe that this identification is mistaken". I don't understand what gratuitous negativity is, so i don't have an opinion on this myself.
- hackuser 12y ago
  > Downvoters: I'd appreciate if you would comment as well, since I can't imagine why you would downvote me for reminding someone of our community guidelines. While sometimes necessary, the topic of community guidelines is uninteresting and disruptive to the reason we're here. In this case, IMHO, it isn't necessary to bring up. The GP merely points out that humans have been augmenting our natural locomotion for a long time; that's not a criticism of the developers.

csours 12y ago

CMU Robotics talk on this exo. Includes facts, figures and a lively discussion (75 minutes).: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j58ZP7vwcsU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j58ZP7vwcsU

kul_ 12y ago

another nice example of `less is more`.