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A hypothetical. You can choose one of the following: a) A degree with no knowledge (perhaps you forgot everything after the final). b) The knowledge with no d

A hypothetical. You can choose one of the following: a) A degree with no knowledge (perhaps you forgot everything after the final). b) The knowledge with no degree (autodidact). Which do you believe will help you more in your job search? If the answer is (a), you pretty much agree with Thiel. If the answer is (b), it's unclear why you are spending money on a degree.

rayiner 12y ago
But there is another option (c): a degree with the knowledge that's hard to get without a structured course of study. As an aside, if you're the kind of person who forgets everything after taking the exam, or takes irrelevant coursework, you might not have the discipline to be a good autodidact.
- hackuser 12y ago
  > knowledge that's hard to get without a structured course of study You are omitting other resources no autodidact could replicate: Billions of dollars in capital resources (labs, systems, etc.), access to and personal instruction from leading experts and researchers in a wide variety of fields (professors), and large numbers of smart peers studying the same things.
impendia 12y ago
> it's unclear why you are spending money on a degree. Because universities help you accumulate knowledge. Yes, autodidacts exist. But, for most people, the atmosphere of a university, the exposure to and attention from experts, and in addition the various sticks and carrots in place (e.g. if you don't study this weekend you'll fail the exam), help with learning.
- jasode 12y ago
  >But, for most people, the atmosphere of a university, the exposure to and attention from experts, and in addition the various sticks and carrots in place (e.g. if you don't study this weekend you'll fail the exam), help with learning. Sure, many folks need structure for learning. But why would such folks be desirable for hiring in programming jobs? Wouldn't we rather hire an autodidact that happened to suffer his way through college instead of the student that required the forced structure of college to learn? There will be a lot of new and difficult material (additional compsci and/or business domain knowledge) to learn after the the 22-year old student graduates. If the student didn't have a "love of learning" to motivate and self-discipline his study, what value should we place on him as a job candidate?
  - nightski 12y ago
    Who said they "need" structure? Maybe it is just an ideal environment? Sure you can learn without professors, free time, and research facilities. But college was the ideal place to learn simply because there were no other demands on my time. I still learn a lot outside of college! But I wish to return to that environment again some day just for fun.
  - cafebeen 12y ago
    I think the structure of school is supposed to be like a set of training wheels, with the hope is that people ultimately learn how to learn.
  - rifung 12y ago
    I'll respectfully disagree. I found that the material I encountered in college was significantly more difficult than anything I've seen in industry. My coworkers have expressed similar opinions. I certainly agree with wanting candidates who have a love of learning though! On the other hand, I would think someone who loves learning would want to go to school. I can't see why someone who loved learning wouldn't want to work with people who are the experts in their fields and tackle challenging, still unsolved problems.
    - nickysielicki 12y ago
      My professors are far from experts in their field. In fact, I'll go as far to say that this is a point for the other side of the argument: in teaching things to myself i find myself on mailing lists and IRC where i have far more interaction with actual experts. I was taught data structures by a guy giving powerpoints and code examples on windows XP. In 2014.
      - rifung 12y ago
        Hm that's unfortunate, and I apologize for projecting my own experiences to that of students at other colleges. I can only speak for my own experiences, and when I was in college I worked with several people who were clearly leaders in their fields. The reason it was obvious was that I would go to talks with guest speakers and they would usually either cite a paper written by one of the professors or informally say that if you have questions about X you should probably ask a certain person in the room.

rayiner 12y ago

But there is another option (c): a degree with the knowledge that's hard to get without a structured course of study. As an aside, if you're the kind of person who forgets everything after taking the exam, or takes irrelevant coursework, you might not have the discipline to be a good autodidact.

hackuser 12y ago
> knowledge that's hard to get without a structured course of study You are omitting other resources no autodidact could replicate: Billions of dollars in capital resources (labs, systems, etc.), access to and personal instruction from leading experts and researchers in a wide variety of fields (professors), and large numbers of smart peers studying the same things.

impendia 12y ago

> it's unclear why you are spending money on a degree. Because universities help you accumulate knowledge. Yes, autodidacts exist. But, for most people, the atmosphere of a university, the exposure to and attention from experts, and in addition the various sticks and carrots in place (e.g. if you don't study this weekend you'll fail the exam), help with learning.

jasode 12y ago
>But, for most people, the atmosphere of a university, the exposure to and attention from experts, and in addition the various sticks and carrots in place (e.g. if you don't study this weekend you'll fail the exam), help with learning. Sure, many folks need structure for learning. But why would such folks be desirable for hiring in programming jobs? Wouldn't we rather hire an autodidact that happened to suffer his way through college instead of the student that required the forced structure of college to learn? There will be a lot of new and difficult material (additional compsci and/or business domain knowledge) to learn after the the 22-year old student graduates. If the student didn't have a "love of learning" to motivate and self-discipline his study, what value should we place on him as a job candidate?
- nightski 12y ago
  Who said they "need" structure? Maybe it is just an ideal environment? Sure you can learn without professors, free time, and research facilities. But college was the ideal place to learn simply because there were no other demands on my time. I still learn a lot outside of college! But I wish to return to that environment again some day just for fun.
- cafebeen 12y ago
  I think the structure of school is supposed to be like a set of training wheels, with the hope is that people ultimately learn how to learn.
- rifung 12y ago
  I'll respectfully disagree. I found that the material I encountered in college was significantly more difficult than anything I've seen in industry. My coworkers have expressed similar opinions. I certainly agree with wanting candidates who have a love of learning though! On the other hand, I would think someone who loves learning would want to go to school. I can't see why someone who loved learning wouldn't want to work with people who are the experts in their fields and tackle challenging, still unsolved problems.
  - nickysielicki 12y ago
    My professors are far from experts in their field. In fact, I'll go as far to say that this is a point for the other side of the argument: in teaching things to myself i find myself on mailing lists and IRC where i have far more interaction with actual experts. I was taught data structures by a guy giving powerpoints and code examples on windows XP. In 2014.
    - rifung 12y ago
      Hm that's unfortunate, and I apologize for projecting my own experiences to that of students at other colleges. I can only speak for my own experiences, and when I was in college I worked with several people who were clearly leaders in their fields. The reason it was obvious was that I would go to talks with guest speakers and they would usually either cite a paper written by one of the professors or informally say that if you have questions about X you should probably ask a certain person in the room.