4 ms·

There are sushi chains that offer two pieces for ¥108. I would much rather spend the ¥2500 to go to the shop mentioned in the article. It's like saying you can'

There are sushi chains that offer two pieces for ¥108. I would much rather spend the ¥2500 to go to the shop mentioned in the article. It's like saying you can't justify the cost of a gourmet burger when McDonald's has a dollar menu.

archagon 12y ago
Right, but they're universally awful. You only start getting sushi that tastes like it should around the $25 mark. I'm just curious what accounts for the fairly extreme price difference, especially given that most of the actual flavor in sushi comes from the fish itself. Is it the price of the fish? Respect for one's craft? Tradition? I'd love to eat good sushi more often, but again, it's hard to justify that kind of price for such a quick and small meal, given the other things you can find in that price range. I've mostly relegated it to occasional celebrations at this point. It's a splurge. (Reading back on it, I realize my initial post came off as too aggressively negative. I'm not venting. I actually really am curious about what goes into the price of sushi, and whether it's priced appropriately based on the skills and ingredients involved, or if it's instead treated and (over)priced as a luxury gourmet food like foie gras.)
- rangibaby 12y ago
  A lot of effort goes into the perfect piece of sushi. I was staying with friends in Shinjuku and one who was a chef at a hotel regularly got up at 4-5am to get to Tsukiji fish market in time to get a good fish. Then there's the rice. Cooking it for just the right amount of time, not squishing any grains, etc. There are a lot of different variables, and you're trusting the person to get them perfect as opposed to "good enough" in exchange for a bit more money. I can't see where your confusion is going from but hopefully this cleared things up a little.
- ctvo 12y ago
  You already acknowledge that sushi is a commodity item you can get anywhere, at various price points, but it tastes better when you pay more. Why is it so confusing to you that quality food costs more? Yes ingredients matter (more so in sushi than most food), yes it requires a lot of skill to prepare. Not only that, the type of sushi restaurant cited in the article, the chef serves the customer directly as he prepares the food. Surely you can see why that'd cost more?
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
- m_mueller 12y ago
  I think it simply boils down to labour cost plus cost for the more expensive seafood: * Sushi chefs need to be highly trained to make good Sushi, ~5 years. => Can't just pay them the basic 800 yen/hour, it's rather going to start at ~3000 yen. * You need a few helping hands besides the chef. Fish, egg and even the rice is relatively labour intensive. Remember, it's not just plain rice, it's rice cooked with traditional methods to exactly the right point, mixed with vinaigre with an assistant venting by hand to give it a drier surface. * Good Sushi needs to be prepared right before consumption, so the Sushi chef will spend at least a few minutes for each portion. Adding all this up propably comes out at around 5-10 bucks labour cost for a decent portion of Sushi. Add to this the fish, the rent and some markup and you're at your $25. Nothing remarkable really, it's the same for most other high quality foods in large cities.
  - archagon 12y ago
    > Sushi chefs need to be highly trained to make good Sushi, ~5 years. I just remembered an excellent book I read about an American sushi school, called "The Story of Sushi", where each student was made to learn to filet dozens of different kinds of fish with precision. So I can see why training to be the best of the best would take a long time. But how much of this experience is really necessary to make a standard, delicious nigiri platter? Most people don't go for the exotic options; they go for tuna, salmon, eel, etc. Do most sushi chefs even filet their own fish? > Remember, it's not just plain rice, it's rice cooked with traditional methods to exactly the right point, mixed with vinaigre with an assistant venting by hand to give it a drier surface. True, but how much of this detail is really necessary for the flavor, as opposed to fussiness and pride in the craft? In other words, in a blind test, would most people be able to tell the difference between quickly-made sushi rice and sushi rice made "exactly right"? > Nothing remarkable really, it's the same for most other high quality foods in large cities. I have to disagree! What other gourmet "fast-ish" food, suitable for lunch, costs $25 in a major city? In all the cities I've been to, most of the famous local fare is in the $10-$15 range at most. I've eaten some of the best food in the world for $10 a pop, easy. (Franklin's BBQ is a good example: hours of grueling work, $10 for half a pound of the best brisket in the world.) GRANTED: I am speaking from a Californian perspective, so none of this may even apply. I am sure you can get some great $10 sushi in Tokyo and that $25 is reasonable for a more gourmet option, but here, you really have to go $25 and higher for sushi to taste good.

archagon 12y ago

Right, but they're universally awful. You only start getting sushi that tastes like it should around the $25 mark. I'm just curious what accounts for the fairly extreme price difference, especially given that most of the actual flavor in sushi comes from the fish itself. Is it the price of the fish? Respect for one's craft? Tradition? I'd love to eat good sushi more often, but again, it's hard to justify that kind of price for such a quick and small meal, given the other things you can find in that price range. I've mostly relegated it to occasional celebrations at this point. It's a splurge. (Reading back on it, I realize my initial post came off as too aggressively negative. I'm not venting. I actually really am curious about what goes into the price of sushi, and whether it's priced appropriately based on the skills and ingredients involved, or if it's instead treated and (over)priced as a luxury gourmet food like foie gras.)

rangibaby 12y ago
A lot of effort goes into the perfect piece of sushi. I was staying with friends in Shinjuku and one who was a chef at a hotel regularly got up at 4-5am to get to Tsukiji fish market in time to get a good fish. Then there's the rice. Cooking it for just the right amount of time, not squishing any grains, etc. There are a lot of different variables, and you're trusting the person to get them perfect as opposed to "good enough" in exchange for a bit more money. I can't see where your confusion is going from but hopefully this cleared things up a little.
ctvo 12y ago
You already acknowledge that sushi is a commodity item you can get anywhere, at various price points, but it tastes better when you pay more. Why is it so confusing to you that quality food costs more? Yes ingredients matter (more so in sushi than most food), yes it requires a lot of skill to prepare. Not only that, the type of sushi restaurant cited in the article, the chef serves the customer directly as he prepares the food. Surely you can see why that'd cost more?
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
m_mueller 12y ago
I think it simply boils down to labour cost plus cost for the more expensive seafood: * Sushi chefs need to be highly trained to make good Sushi, ~5 years. => Can't just pay them the basic 800 yen/hour, it's rather going to start at ~3000 yen. * You need a few helping hands besides the chef. Fish, egg and even the rice is relatively labour intensive. Remember, it's not just plain rice, it's rice cooked with traditional methods to exactly the right point, mixed with vinaigre with an assistant venting by hand to give it a drier surface. * Good Sushi needs to be prepared right before consumption, so the Sushi chef will spend at least a few minutes for each portion. Adding all this up propably comes out at around 5-10 bucks labour cost for a decent portion of Sushi. Add to this the fish, the rent and some markup and you're at your $25. Nothing remarkable really, it's the same for most other high quality foods in large cities.
- archagon 12y ago
  > Sushi chefs need to be highly trained to make good Sushi, ~5 years. I just remembered an excellent book I read about an American sushi school, called "The Story of Sushi", where each student was made to learn to filet dozens of different kinds of fish with precision. So I can see why training to be the best of the best would take a long time. But how much of this experience is really necessary to make a standard, delicious nigiri platter? Most people don't go for the exotic options; they go for tuna, salmon, eel, etc. Do most sushi chefs even filet their own fish? > Remember, it's not just plain rice, it's rice cooked with traditional methods to exactly the right point, mixed with vinaigre with an assistant venting by hand to give it a drier surface. True, but how much of this detail is really necessary for the flavor, as opposed to fussiness and pride in the craft? In other words, in a blind test, would most people be able to tell the difference between quickly-made sushi rice and sushi rice made "exactly right"? > Nothing remarkable really, it's the same for most other high quality foods in large cities. I have to disagree! What other gourmet "fast-ish" food, suitable for lunch, costs $25 in a major city? In all the cities I've been to, most of the famous local fare is in the $10-$15 range at most. I've eaten some of the best food in the world for $10 a pop, easy. (Franklin's BBQ is a good example: hours of grueling work, $10 for half a pound of the best brisket in the world.) GRANTED: I am speaking from a Californian perspective, so none of this may even apply. I am sure you can get some great $10 sushi in Tokyo and that $25 is reasonable for a more gourmet option, but here, you really have to go $25 and higher for sushi to taste good.