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If police not identifying themselves is becoming a pattern, it's going to be very confusing and dangerous to ordinary people. I live in Germany, in a completel

by Udo 12y ago

If police not identifying themselves is becoming a pattern, it's going to be very confusing and dangerous to ordinary people. I live in Germany, in a completely safe and virtually crimeless idyllic suburb. A couple of months ago I came home at noon and noticed a small group of what looked like thugs loitering at the front door of my neighbor's house. One of them kept banging the door and shouting "open up, or you don't want to find out what happens next" (or something to that effect) in a thick regional dialect. All the neighbors were hiding in their houses, but I was already on the street right in front of them, so I walked over and asked "is there something wrong here?". Two of the thugs blocked my way and the shouting guy exclaimed "move along, there is nothing to see here". This was the point when I was getting out my phone and started dialing the police emergency number, just as two trucks of the fire department and a police van were moving in from opposite ends of the street, coming to a halt in front of the house. Uniformed people swarmed out and joined what I had assumed to be thugs before. Turns out they were plain-clothes officers. In the end, it came out it was a pot raid, but apparently nothing was found. In slightly different circumstances, this could have escalated quickly. The plain clothes officers were clearly looking for trouble. At the very least they were enjoying their effect on the civilians. It's not a SWAT yet, but it's enough to make me uncomfortable; especially considering the history of the country. It's not always been like this here. I do have friends who are police officers, and generally they take pride in the fact that (and I quote) "it's not like in the US", but I'm afraid we might be importing this problem now.

Rainymood 12y ago
>In slightly different circumstances, this could have escalated quickly. You mean, when people have guns? Here in the Netherlands most of the people have a healthy dose of respect towards police officers. Especially with their new shiny uniforms.
- Udo 12y ago
  > You mean, when people have guns? I mean when police officers refuse to identify as such, ignorantly or willfully creating a situation where civilians think they're in danger. It's not safe for anybody involved. > Especially with their new shiny uniforms. I think they're updating the uniforms all over the EU, making them more alike. They do look snazzy. ;)
plongeur 12y ago
I mean - let's be honest - there is a reason why somebody chooses to become a cop. And more often than not - this very reason isn't about "helping people". It's more likely about enjoying the exertion of power over people. There is a stronger psychological similarity between ordinary hooligans and police men than what is good. It's also always the police who will eagerly suppress people in case a state turns increasingly totalitarian - policemen don't like thinking for themselves - which is why they choose those hierarchical jobs in the first place. They like to have action and the feeling of adrenalin. Also it's worth thinking about this - the SS in Nazi Germany was made up of about 2% of the population. Now this personality type who would do SS jobs didn't just go away - the root is of psychological nature which is most likely more or less uniformly distributed within any population. Now those guys - in that psychological, statistical sense still exist - what do you think what kind of job they will choose? Elder care? Most likely either military or police.
- fenomas 12y ago
  > there is a reason why somebody chooses to become a cop.. Raymond Chandler: "Police business is a hell of a problem. It’s a good deal like politics. It asks for the highest type of men, and there’s nothing in it to attract the highest type of men."
- Udo 12y ago
  > It's more likely about enjoying the exertion of power over people. It depends on the political climate. I grant you - and as a German by birth I used to think about it a lot - that Germans are especially vulnerable to this. Honestly I witnessed abuse of power far more often from public servants (if you need to interact directly with a low-rung city official here you're pretty much hosed), and I won't deny that everyday citizen-on-citizen malice has a special quality in this country to this day. But it's been my experience that police officers are indeed mostly in it to help people. Sure, they're extra suspicious about everything, but I think that's par for the job. If this is indeed changing, it's a result of international osmosis.

by Udo 12y ago

Rainymood 12y ago

>In slightly different circumstances, this could have escalated quickly. You mean, when people have guns? Here in the Netherlands most of the people have a healthy dose of respect towards police officers. Especially with their new shiny uniforms.

Udo 12y ago
> You mean, when people have guns? I mean when police officers refuse to identify as such, ignorantly or willfully creating a situation where civilians think they're in danger. It's not safe for anybody involved. > Especially with their new shiny uniforms. I think they're updating the uniforms all over the EU, making them more alike. They do look snazzy. ;)

plongeur 12y ago

I mean - let's be honest - there is a reason why somebody chooses to become a cop. And more often than not - this very reason isn't about "helping people". It's more likely about enjoying the exertion of power over people. There is a stronger psychological similarity between ordinary hooligans and police men than what is good. It's also always the police who will eagerly suppress people in case a state turns increasingly totalitarian - policemen don't like thinking for themselves - which is why they choose those hierarchical jobs in the first place. They like to have action and the feeling of adrenalin. Also it's worth thinking about this - the SS in Nazi Germany was made up of about 2% of the population. Now this personality type who would do SS jobs didn't just go away - the root is of psychological nature which is most likely more or less uniformly distributed within any population. Now those guys - in that psychological, statistical sense still exist - what do you think what kind of job they will choose? Elder care? Most likely either military or police.

fenomas 12y ago
> there is a reason why somebody chooses to become a cop.. Raymond Chandler: "Police business is a hell of a problem. It’s a good deal like politics. It asks for the highest type of men, and there’s nothing in it to attract the highest type of men."
Udo 12y ago
> It's more likely about enjoying the exertion of power over people. It depends on the political climate. I grant you - and as a German by birth I used to think about it a lot - that Germans are especially vulnerable to this. Honestly I witnessed abuse of power far more often from public servants (if you need to interact directly with a low-rung city official here you're pretty much hosed), and I won't deny that everyday citizen-on-citizen malice has a special quality in this country to this day. But it's been my experience that police officers are indeed mostly in it to help people. Sure, they're extra suspicious about everything, but I think that's par for the job. If this is indeed changing, it's a result of international osmosis.