5 ms·

I don't agree but beware - non-educated unscientific rant ahead, personal view only You can only measure nature with nature ..or universe with the same univers

I don't agree but beware - non-educated unscientific rant ahead, personal view only You can only measure nature with nature ..or universe with the same universe, - or - universe can only measure it self with/by itself; now measurement is an interaction - you have to interact(either directly or indirectly) with what you are trying to measure to get some information. Since you are using "parts" of the universe(like photon/electron beams, stones, chopsticks) to measure other parts of the same universe, of course there are limits on your precision and artifacts within those measurements. Lets do a gedankenexperiment; imagine that you just entered a porcelain shop but your vision is based on arbitrary-sized plastic projectile gun and a (smart)detector wall that detects all projectiles that bumped of a scanned surface within a certain angle. Now there is only a range of momentums(velocity/weight combinations) that would let you scan that environment within an acceptable resolution - the point is that you can't have an arbitrary resolution(either there is air-resistance or unavoidable damage to the environment or or).. I'll jump ahead a few steps and go right to the underlying question, and that is whether the universe is deterministic or not - which in context of the above is actually pretty straight-forward(again, personal view) - since as "inhabitants" of the universe we want to measure we are bound to use parts of the universe to do our measurements, newtons predicable clockwork universe indeed has its limitations(and I really don't see why this is such an issue when c is accepted without friction, if you have no problems dealing with c why on earth do you have such problems with this which directly follows). Regardless of whether we live in a deterministic universe or not we can't have arbitrary resolution so from practical point of view - for us - its the same as if the universe "at-its-core" was not deterministic(there is no way to get that probability line under control when time increases). Now as a pure philosophical question, whether our universe is really deterministic or not depends on the model we use(in "bubble-like-multiverses" there is no interaction between universe-bubbles possible hence deterministic, in eternal inflation models it gets spread from deterministic to non-deterministic but for all models with interacting universes - only your imagination is the limit, seriously, very potent drug) All in all, one thing is sure - we are the universe experiencing it self sooo enjoy

hliyan 12y ago
> "you are using "parts" of the universe(like photon/electron beams, stones, chopsticks) to measure other parts of the same universe" That's a very insightful way to put it. To me, that completely and intuitively explains uncertainty -- every form of perception is a form of interaction. So our brains have just evolved to treat them as two different concepts because we perceive using very weakly interacting mechanisms (such as light and sound) and that gives the illusion of pure perception. However, that does not invalidate my points about the other two aspects of quantum physics -- fluctuations and quantization -- does it?
- onetimeuser98 12y ago
  "[..] gives the illusion of pure perception" - nicely put @invalidate. this is too strong of a word for a fuzzy conversation like this, it was certainly not my intend nor do I feel to be qualified enough to do so "fluctuations and quantization" - please elaborate furher
  - hliyan 12y ago
    By fluctuations, I meant this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_fluctuation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_fluctuation Quantization, of course, is the existence limits to divisibility of matter and energy. Sorry, I only have a first-year engineering knowledge of quantum mechanics. I could be oversimplifying.

hliyan 12y ago

> "you are using "parts" of the universe(like photon/electron beams, stones, chopsticks) to measure other parts of the same universe" That's a very insightful way to put it. To me, that completely and intuitively explains uncertainty -- every form of perception is a form of interaction. So our brains have just evolved to treat them as two different concepts because we perceive using very weakly interacting mechanisms (such as light and sound) and that gives the illusion of pure perception. However, that does not invalidate my points about the other two aspects of quantum physics -- fluctuations and quantization -- does it?

onetimeuser98 12y ago
"[..] gives the illusion of pure perception" - nicely put @invalidate. this is too strong of a word for a fuzzy conversation like this, it was certainly not my intend nor do I feel to be qualified enough to do so "fluctuations and quantization" - please elaborate furher
- hliyan 12y ago
  By fluctuations, I meant this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_fluctuation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_fluctuation Quantization, of course, is the existence limits to divisibility of matter and energy. Sorry, I only have a first-year engineering knowledge of quantum mechanics. I could be oversimplifying.