7 ms·

There was recently some articles about the phenomenon in the Finnish Helsinki Times, but they say it mainly happens in the USA "due to the agressive operating c

by kiiski 12y ago

There was recently some articles about the phenomenon in the Finnish Helsinki Times, but they say it mainly happens in the USA "due to the agressive operating culture of the countrys police"[1]. Apparently the people calling the swat strike may be from other countries. [1] in finnish: http://nyt.fi/a1305943609673 http://nyt.fi/a1305943609673

iLoch 12y ago
I don't know if you can entirely blame the police. These scenarios are sort of a product of their environment: guns are very available in the US and there's no room to make assumptions about emergency calls. Police are forced to respond like its a real scenario - almost like a low level DDoS attack. Makes you wonder what these SWATers are saying to police.
- mapt 12y ago
  Guns were very available to civilians in the US before we started giving the police military hardware, before we escalated paramilitary tactics from a few dozen teams around the country to every single department, before the no-knock warrant and the guns-drawn entry and the highest incarceration rate in the world. This stuff doesn't have to be the standard. This is a fad borne of the fact that most people who are SWATed find boots on their necks and cuffs on their wrists before they're capable of explaining themselves. If they're lucky.
- justizin 12y ago
  My understanding of this situation from following on Twitter is that they claimed to be at her location, armed, with a hostage, asking for ransom. I'm doing my best to spare the diatribe about how the Oakland Police Department is essentially the worst police department in the US. Let's just take a step back. In what world does someone who wants a ransom for a hostage call the police? This isn't something that happens, except in action movies. The entire narrative, including the police reaction, is straight out of a sophomore film student's twisted imagination. The police, esp in the US, but in general, aren't designed to protect and serve, they're designed to eliminate threats to power. Right now Oakland has a new mayor who wants to make sure voters see that she is tough on crime. This situation is an unfortunate collision of two worlds that know very little about each other. :/
  - raverbashing 12y ago
    > In what world does someone who wants a ransom for a hostage call the police? Any witness can call and describe the situation, as well as victims that are in hiding. If you were a 911 operator and got a call that was ordering a Pizza you would have hang up right?
- DanBC 12y ago
  http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/03/idaho-police-shootings-jeanetta-riley-justice-for-arfee http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/03/idaho-police-... Here's an example of a women with a knife making threats to kill people and ignoring police instruction where those police are clearly armed and prepared to kill. http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/03/idaho-police-shootings-jeanetta-riley-justice-for-arfee http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/03/idaho-police-... She was pregnant; the knife was a three inch blade; the police had less-lethal options available but chose not to use them; police did not just have their pistols - one of them had an AR15 rifle. There were things the police could have done that would have avoided the death of the woman (and the risk of death or injury to bystanders). (I'm not talking about shoot to wound - I know enough to know that's misguided). The police could have used their tasers. They should have been given better training in de-escalation.
- maxerickson 12y ago
  A no knock raid is an initiation and escalation of force. There needs to be a high bar for using it (maybe even "don't").
- fenomas 12y ago
  Surely we have to blame the police a little. (Procedures I mean, not individuals.) I mean, it's true that every anonymous call is a potential life-and-death situation, but it's equally true that every call is a potential prank. To put it in a fire department metaphor, if someone anonymously calls in a fire, naturally you send out the trucks. But you need to check for smoke before you turn the hose on, right?
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    Why procedures and not individuals? Procedures don't emerge out of the ether, they are written, reviewed, approved, and implemented by individuals. If individuals aren't responsible, there is no accountability.
freebsdgirl 12y ago
I can confirm that most indications we've been able to gather point at SWAT threats coming in over Skype and google voice. Location is harder to pinpoint. Many do appear to come from overseas.
mikkom 12y ago
I'm finnish and I was really wondering how this could be happening in Finland as our police is not exactly known for swat style raids. So FYI for other people nor unerstanding finnish: This is about some finns (probably teens) calling police to some address in another country, not police raiding homes swat style in Finland. Article also states that KRP (national bureau of investigation, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Bureau_of_Investigation_%28Finland%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Bureau_of_Investigatio...) is investigating the issue so finnish police is definitely not taking this lightly.

by kiiski 12y ago

iLoch 12y ago

I don't know if you can entirely blame the police. These scenarios are sort of a product of their environment: guns are very available in the US and there's no room to make assumptions about emergency calls. Police are forced to respond like its a real scenario - almost like a low level DDoS attack. Makes you wonder what these SWATers are saying to police.

mapt 12y ago
Guns were very available to civilians in the US before we started giving the police military hardware, before we escalated paramilitary tactics from a few dozen teams around the country to every single department, before the no-knock warrant and the guns-drawn entry and the highest incarceration rate in the world. This stuff doesn't have to be the standard. This is a fad borne of the fact that most people who are SWATed find boots on their necks and cuffs on their wrists before they're capable of explaining themselves. If they're lucky.
justizin 12y ago
My understanding of this situation from following on Twitter is that they claimed to be at her location, armed, with a hostage, asking for ransom. I'm doing my best to spare the diatribe about how the Oakland Police Department is essentially the worst police department in the US. Let's just take a step back. In what world does someone who wants a ransom for a hostage call the police? This isn't something that happens, except in action movies. The entire narrative, including the police reaction, is straight out of a sophomore film student's twisted imagination. The police, esp in the US, but in general, aren't designed to protect and serve, they're designed to eliminate threats to power. Right now Oakland has a new mayor who wants to make sure voters see that she is tough on crime. This situation is an unfortunate collision of two worlds that know very little about each other. :/
- raverbashing 12y ago
  > In what world does someone who wants a ransom for a hostage call the police? Any witness can call and describe the situation, as well as victims that are in hiding. If you were a 911 operator and got a call that was ordering a Pizza you would have hang up right?
DanBC 12y ago
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/03/idaho-police-shootings-jeanetta-riley-justice-for-arfee http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/03/idaho-police-... Here's an example of a women with a knife making threats to kill people and ignoring police instruction where those police are clearly armed and prepared to kill. http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/03/idaho-police-shootings-jeanetta-riley-justice-for-arfee http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/03/idaho-police-... She was pregnant; the knife was a three inch blade; the police had less-lethal options available but chose not to use them; police did not just have their pistols - one of them had an AR15 rifle. There were things the police could have done that would have avoided the death of the woman (and the risk of death or injury to bystanders). (I'm not talking about shoot to wound - I know enough to know that's misguided). The police could have used their tasers. They should have been given better training in de-escalation.
maxerickson 12y ago
A no knock raid is an initiation and escalation of force. There needs to be a high bar for using it (maybe even "don't").
fenomas 12y ago
Surely we have to blame the police a little. (Procedures I mean, not individuals.) I mean, it's true that every anonymous call is a potential life-and-death situation, but it's equally true that every call is a potential prank. To put it in a fire department metaphor, if someone anonymously calls in a fire, naturally you send out the trucks. But you need to check for smoke before you turn the hose on, right?
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  Why procedures and not individuals? Procedures don't emerge out of the ether, they are written, reviewed, approved, and implemented by individuals. If individuals aren't responsible, there is no accountability.

freebsdgirl 12y ago

I can confirm that most indications we've been able to gather point at SWAT threats coming in over Skype and google voice. Location is harder to pinpoint. Many do appear to come from overseas.

mikkom 12y ago

I'm finnish and I was really wondering how this could be happening in Finland as our police is not exactly known for swat style raids. So FYI for other people nor unerstanding finnish: This is about some finns (probably teens) calling police to some address in another country, not police raiding homes swat style in Finland. Article also states that KRP (national bureau of investigation, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Bureau_of_Investigation_%28Finland%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Bureau_of_Investigatio...) is investigating the issue so finnish police is definitely not taking this lightly.