4 ms·

Ask HN: Uniforms

9 points by ratac 12y ago

Hey guys, I stumbled on an article about people who wore the same outfit (Jobs, Einstein, Zuckerberg) everyday and the reasons behind it. As far as I can tell there are three reasons for this: 1: To reduce the amount of decisions a person must make in a day in order to retain cognitive ability. 2: To save time deciding on what do wear. 3: To establish personal 'brand'. The more I read into this the more it appealed to me (Reasons 1, 2 more so than three) and I'm wondering if people could share their thoughts on the same. Or, to make this a more pointed question: If someone wore the same outfit every day and you were unaware of their reasoning what would you think?

petercooper 12y ago
It wouldn't bother me much although I would initially assume they were rewearing the same clothes and not clean ones each day. Over time, when they didn't stink, it would sink in. But that said, if it's all about points 1 and 2, you don't need to spend more than 10 seconds "deciding" what to wear. Make sure all your clothes are neutral enough to go together (but are not necessarily identical) and then just pick the first things at the top of the pile. They don't all have to be identical for this to work.
- shortoncash 12y ago
  You could probably work around the same-clothes-not-clean issue by doing what service techs that deal with the public do: Get a patch sewn onto the shirt with your name on it. People's minds are conditioned to think shirts with patches on them are uniforms. You don't even have to use your own name. Thrift stores will sometimes have uniforms for sale with name patches still on the shirt. Aside from being comfortable with the sticker price, you'd just have to be comfortable using some other guy's name patch on your shirt. For the record, I'd be cool with a patch that says "Peter Cooper".
DanBC 12y ago
I probably wouldn't notice. I would want to protect them from taunting of other colleagues although I guess that depends where you work. If you're going to wear (eg) a Gap pocket T everyday it might be an idea to get different colours for each day. That doesn't add to the cognitive burden. (But I admit that I spend no time thinking about what I'm wearing)
bradcypert 12y ago
In a way, it reminds me of Cartoon Characters who wear the same thing every day, they're instantly recognizable, even if you can just see their shirt/pants. The branding is the only part really noticeable to anyone other than yourself and once you explain the other two reasons, Im sure they'll understand.
anigbrowl 12y ago
It's broadly positive as long as the person's clothes are clean. Occasionally I've run into someone who seemed superficially well-dressed but when I got close to them I realized their clothes were falling apart, which is sad in multiple ways. If you're going to do this, get someone to help you in figuring out what looks good, and spend money on it, ie if you end up wearing a blazer and jeans and a t-shirt, get the blazers tailored for a perfect fit. Fit is the difference between looking sharp and looking like a slob, no matter what you're wearing. Consciously or unconsciously, most people are going to judge you based on the quality of what you wear so you might as well give off a positive impression. And I really mean it about soliciting someone else's input. If you are not 'into' clothes - and not wanting to spend time thinking about them suggests that you are probably not - then you are likely not a good judge of what suits you, and you may well have become comfortable with ill-fitting or poorly-chosen clothes through habit.
- _RPM 12y ago
  It's not hard to tell the difference between an outfit that looks good and an outfit that looks bad. I think you advice is flawed. Maybe people like you seek to validate yourself by asking for others opinion about what you should wear in order to impress other people, but you shouldn't assume everyone else needs other persons validation.
- ratac 12y ago
  Thanks for this contribution. I'm considering adopting a dark grey t shirt, black hoody, dark jeans and black Converse as it seems to be the most neutral and versatile look that someone can have. And I certainly agree on fit. Nobody wants to have their jeans dragging under their shoes.
scholia 12y ago
In the UK, it has been very common for people to wear the same basic stuff every day for decades. It started with your school uniform, followed perhaps by an army (etc) uniform, and then a job uniform. The job uniform might be overalls or one chosen by a profession (eg nurses) or a particular company (a shop or restaurant or factory, an airline, etc). Not every job leaves you free to wear whatever you like. In the city of London, and in companies such as IBM, many people adopted a common uniform that they wore every day, even if each person's choice of suit, shirt and tie might be slightly different. The essential point is that your work clothes are not about presenting you to your colleagues but about representing your company in public. When I went to work for a company with a more casual dress code, I'd have been out of place in my previous three-piece suit, shirt and tie. After a while, I devised my own style of "uniform" so I could wear the same things every day without having to think about it. If anybody noticed, they didn't comment. But then, if they were wearing much the same things every day, I didn't notice or comment either. Really, who cares? It makes shopping simpler: you just go out and buy a bunch of five identical shirts at a time. I sometimes got five-for-the-price-of-four-type deals. (You can haggle.) I did find it was impossible to have identical outfits because clothes change when they are washed often. Also, companies change long-running designs, even if people don't think they do. In my case, the shirt buttons changed, though again, probably nobody else noticed. Most companies have an unspoken "dress code" anyway. As long as you stay within that, nobody really cares.
furyofantares 12y ago
I spend basically zero cognitive effort or decision time on what to wear once it's purchased. This is because I have difficulty caring about my appearance and so I just grab the first clean thing. (Though I can care about my appearance with some effort, either to satisfy someone else or to derive some personal value from it.) I was running a company, or a public figure, or both, I imagine I would place a higher value on my appearance and would need to expend daily effort on it, or hire someone to do so, or choose a uniform. That said, if someone around me wore the same thing every day, it would just be an interesting fact about them. It wouldn't reflect negatively to me.
- ratac 12y ago
  I agree that people who run companies and thus are in the public eye are open to much more scrutiny but this is more a societal problem. Tim Cooks most public appearance is during a key note and has the staple dark shirt, dark pants and black shoes. Possibly great deal of thought went into this (How the outfit affects the viewers perception of the slides, detracts from products, etc. but it's still seen as a strong and staple look.
getdavidhiggins 12y ago
Joshua Klein does this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXQAgzfwuNQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXQAgzfwuNQ I remember him saying why he does it, for the exact reasons you state. In terms of the perception of others; different issue entirely. That's why we have normcore: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normcore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normcore
- ratac 12y ago
  That's right! I'd forgotten he did this. He calls it the Black T shirt Prject and explains it here. http://www.josh.is/the-black-t-shirt-project/ http://www.josh.is/the-black-t-shirt-project/ My only gripe with his approach is that he owns two pairs of pants? I was thinking three would be the minimum that one would need; two in the wash, one out?
m0llusk 12y ago
Yes, it saves time. It also saves shopping time, wardrobe space, and reduces the complexity of doing laundry. There is much more to personal branding than what is worn. Uniforms just make it easy to recognize people and form consistent associations.
kszx 12y ago
I do. (The number of layers varies with the temperature.) May I ask the opposite question? Why do many people change outfits almost every day? Do they derive satisfaction from the process of choosing clothes? Or do they derive satisfaction from the fact that other people notice these changes? As you point out, choosing and owning different outfits comes at a cost, and people who choose to do so must have a reason for this behaviour.
- Rainymood 12y ago
  Some people just like dressing up. Other's like to feel confident and they choose to take that confidence from their choice of clothing. Whether this is a good or a bad thing is another discussion. So yes. "Most" people are superficial in the sense that, given that they look good, they are more likely to feel confident. I personally think that one shouldn't have external influences as a source of confidence (as that can be taken away) but that doesn't say that a lot of people don't feel that way. Sometimes you just want to feel pretty, I figure. On top of that, fashion is all about context. If I wear leather shoes I am dressed-up more than 99% of my peers. However, if I wear leather shoes in ... let's say Paris, I'm just one of many. Fashion is all about context. Imagine Steve Jobs going to a black turtleneck and dad-jeans con ... lol
- untog 12y ago
  Why do many people change outfits almost every day? Well, you're going to change clothes every day, so why not add some variety? Plus different outfits for different contexts, of course.
- jhildings 12y ago
  >Why do many people change outfits almost every day? Do they derive satisfaction from the process of choosing clothes? Or do they derive satisfaction from the fact that other people notice these changes? I like to match different colours and materials, it's fun to try new things and styles. After a while you will learn what fits together and what don't, and then you can start experimenting even more
entreprenewb 12y ago
Obama does the same thing (for reason #1): http://www.fastcompany.com/3026265/work-smart/always-wear-the-same-suit-obamas-presidential-productivity-secrets http://www.fastcompany.com/3026265/work-smart/always-wear-th... It might be a bit mundane, but I can appreciate the pragmatism.
kwma 12y ago
If someone wore the same outfit everyday, they must really enjoy what they wear. For example, my dentist always wears scrubs and tennis shoes to work and he does not care what people think because it is comfortable to him. He also does not have to worry about ironing his clothes, getting his nice clothes messy, and it looks professional. I agree with the fact that it establishes a brand, because wearing scrubs gives the connotation of being in the health care field. Wearing the same thing also saves a lot of money, because you can get your outfit in bulk or on sale.
mobiplayer 12y ago
I'm sorry but it is barely believable that #1 and #2 would make a difference in your life at all. Seriously, you could save much more cognitive ability by not leaving your home in the first place. First thing is that you won't even need to dress at all or even shower (bonus: no need to choose if you use gel or shampoo first and spend all that cognitive ability on adjusting water's temperature and pressure), then you don't need to make the +100 choices you are unaware you make during your commute. #3 makes a lot sense, but you could also build a brand by wearing the same kind of clothes (e.g. hoodies, turtlenecks) but with changing details.

Ask HN: Uniforms

9 points by ratac 12y ago

petercooper 12y ago

It wouldn't bother me much although I would initially assume they were rewearing the same clothes and not clean ones each day. Over time, when they didn't stink, it would sink in. But that said, if it's all about points 1 and 2, you don't need to spend more than 10 seconds "deciding" what to wear. Make sure all your clothes are neutral enough to go together (but are not necessarily identical) and then just pick the first things at the top of the pile. They don't all have to be identical for this to work.

shortoncash 12y ago
You could probably work around the same-clothes-not-clean issue by doing what service techs that deal with the public do: Get a patch sewn onto the shirt with your name on it. People's minds are conditioned to think shirts with patches on them are uniforms. You don't even have to use your own name. Thrift stores will sometimes have uniforms for sale with name patches still on the shirt. Aside from being comfortable with the sticker price, you'd just have to be comfortable using some other guy's name patch on your shirt. For the record, I'd be cool with a patch that says "Peter Cooper".

DanBC 12y ago

I probably wouldn't notice. I would want to protect them from taunting of other colleagues although I guess that depends where you work. If you're going to wear (eg) a Gap pocket T everyday it might be an idea to get different colours for each day. That doesn't add to the cognitive burden. (But I admit that I spend no time thinking about what I'm wearing)

bradcypert 12y ago

In a way, it reminds me of Cartoon Characters who wear the same thing every day, they're instantly recognizable, even if you can just see their shirt/pants. The branding is the only part really noticeable to anyone other than yourself and once you explain the other two reasons, Im sure they'll understand.

anigbrowl 12y ago

It's broadly positive as long as the person's clothes are clean. Occasionally I've run into someone who seemed superficially well-dressed but when I got close to them I realized their clothes were falling apart, which is sad in multiple ways. If you're going to do this, get someone to help you in figuring out what looks good, and spend money on it, ie if you end up wearing a blazer and jeans and a t-shirt, get the blazers tailored for a perfect fit. Fit is the difference between looking sharp and looking like a slob, no matter what you're wearing. Consciously or unconsciously, most people are going to judge you based on the quality of what you wear so you might as well give off a positive impression. And I really mean it about soliciting someone else's input. If you are not 'into' clothes - and not wanting to spend time thinking about them suggests that you are probably not - then you are likely not a good judge of what suits you, and you may well have become comfortable with ill-fitting or poorly-chosen clothes through habit.

_RPM 12y ago
It's not hard to tell the difference between an outfit that looks good and an outfit that looks bad. I think you advice is flawed. Maybe people like you seek to validate yourself by asking for others opinion about what you should wear in order to impress other people, but you shouldn't assume everyone else needs other persons validation.
ratac 12y ago
Thanks for this contribution. I'm considering adopting a dark grey t shirt, black hoody, dark jeans and black Converse as it seems to be the most neutral and versatile look that someone can have. And I certainly agree on fit. Nobody wants to have their jeans dragging under their shoes.

scholia 12y ago

In the UK, it has been very common for people to wear the same basic stuff every day for decades. It started with your school uniform, followed perhaps by an army (etc) uniform, and then a job uniform. The job uniform might be overalls or one chosen by a profession (eg nurses) or a particular company (a shop or restaurant or factory, an airline, etc). Not every job leaves you free to wear whatever you like. In the city of London, and in companies such as IBM, many people adopted a common uniform that they wore every day, even if each person's choice of suit, shirt and tie might be slightly different. The essential point is that your work clothes are not about presenting you to your colleagues but about representing your company in public. When I went to work for a company with a more casual dress code, I'd have been out of place in my previous three-piece suit, shirt and tie. After a while, I devised my own style of "uniform" so I could wear the same things every day without having to think about it. If anybody noticed, they didn't comment. But then, if they were wearing much the same things every day, I didn't notice or comment either. Really, who cares? It makes shopping simpler: you just go out and buy a bunch of five identical shirts at a time. I sometimes got five-for-the-price-of-four-type deals. (You can haggle.) I did find it was impossible to have identical outfits because clothes change when they are washed often. Also, companies change long-running designs, even if people don't think they do. In my case, the shirt buttons changed, though again, probably nobody else noticed. Most companies have an unspoken "dress code" anyway. As long as you stay within that, nobody really cares.

furyofantares 12y ago

I spend basically zero cognitive effort or decision time on what to wear once it's purchased. This is because I have difficulty caring about my appearance and so I just grab the first clean thing. (Though I can care about my appearance with some effort, either to satisfy someone else or to derive some personal value from it.) I was running a company, or a public figure, or both, I imagine I would place a higher value on my appearance and would need to expend daily effort on it, or hire someone to do so, or choose a uniform. That said, if someone around me wore the same thing every day, it would just be an interesting fact about them. It wouldn't reflect negatively to me.

ratac 12y ago
I agree that people who run companies and thus are in the public eye are open to much more scrutiny but this is more a societal problem. Tim Cooks most public appearance is during a key note and has the staple dark shirt, dark pants and black shoes. Possibly great deal of thought went into this (How the outfit affects the viewers perception of the slides, detracts from products, etc. but it's still seen as a strong and staple look.

getdavidhiggins 12y ago

Joshua Klein does this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXQAgzfwuNQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXQAgzfwuNQ I remember him saying why he does it, for the exact reasons you state. In terms of the perception of others; different issue entirely. That's why we have normcore: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normcore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normcore

ratac 12y ago
That's right! I'd forgotten he did this. He calls it the Black T shirt Prject and explains it here. http://www.josh.is/the-black-t-shirt-project/ http://www.josh.is/the-black-t-shirt-project/ My only gripe with his approach is that he owns two pairs of pants? I was thinking three would be the minimum that one would need; two in the wash, one out?

m0llusk 12y ago

Yes, it saves time. It also saves shopping time, wardrobe space, and reduces the complexity of doing laundry. There is much more to personal branding than what is worn. Uniforms just make it easy to recognize people and form consistent associations.

kszx 12y ago

I do. (The number of layers varies with the temperature.) May I ask the opposite question? Why do many people change outfits almost every day? Do they derive satisfaction from the process of choosing clothes? Or do they derive satisfaction from the fact that other people notice these changes? As you point out, choosing and owning different outfits comes at a cost, and people who choose to do so must have a reason for this behaviour.

Rainymood 12y ago
Some people just like dressing up. Other's like to feel confident and they choose to take that confidence from their choice of clothing. Whether this is a good or a bad thing is another discussion. So yes. "Most" people are superficial in the sense that, given that they look good, they are more likely to feel confident. I personally think that one shouldn't have external influences as a source of confidence (as that can be taken away) but that doesn't say that a lot of people don't feel that way. Sometimes you just want to feel pretty, I figure. On top of that, fashion is all about context. If I wear leather shoes I am dressed-up more than 99% of my peers. However, if I wear leather shoes in ... let's say Paris, I'm just one of many. Fashion is all about context. Imagine Steve Jobs going to a black turtleneck and dad-jeans con ... lol
untog 12y ago
Why do many people change outfits almost every day? Well, you're going to change clothes every day, so why not add some variety? Plus different outfits for different contexts, of course.
jhildings 12y ago
>Why do many people change outfits almost every day? Do they derive satisfaction from the process of choosing clothes? Or do they derive satisfaction from the fact that other people notice these changes? I like to match different colours and materials, it's fun to try new things and styles. After a while you will learn what fits together and what don't, and then you can start experimenting even more

entreprenewb 12y ago

Obama does the same thing (for reason #1): http://www.fastcompany.com/3026265/work-smart/always-wear-the-same-suit-obamas-presidential-productivity-secrets http://www.fastcompany.com/3026265/work-smart/always-wear-th... It might be a bit mundane, but I can appreciate the pragmatism.

kwma 12y ago

If someone wore the same outfit everyday, they must really enjoy what they wear. For example, my dentist always wears scrubs and tennis shoes to work and he does not care what people think because it is comfortable to him. He also does not have to worry about ironing his clothes, getting his nice clothes messy, and it looks professional. I agree with the fact that it establishes a brand, because wearing scrubs gives the connotation of being in the health care field. Wearing the same thing also saves a lot of money, because you can get your outfit in bulk or on sale.

mobiplayer 12y ago

I'm sorry but it is barely believable that #1 and #2 would make a difference in your life at all. Seriously, you could save much more cognitive ability by not leaving your home in the first place. First thing is that you won't even need to dress at all or even shower (bonus: no need to choose if you use gel or shampoo first and spend all that cognitive ability on adjusting water's temperature and pressure), then you don't need to make the +100 choices you are unaware you make during your commute. #3 makes a lot sense, but you could also build a brand by wearing the same kind of clothes (e.g. hoodies, turtlenecks) but with changing details.