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> Finally, the Normans invaded England in 1066, and they subdivided the land into counties, from which we get the title of “Count”. Other way round: "county" c
by dghf 12y ago
> Finally, the Normans invaded England in 1066, and they subdivided the land into counties, from which we get the title of “Count”.
Other way round: "county" comes from "count", which is an anglicisation of a gallicisation of the Latin "comes", literally "companion" but forming part of a number of Late Roman military titles, such as comes brittaniarum, commander of the British field army in the 4th century.
- gumby 12y agoThank you, that sentence irritated me too.
- abrowne 12y agoAlthough the shires became counties after the Norman conquest, the rulers remained earls, probably because 'count' was too similar to a rude word.
- dghf 12y ago> probably because 'count' was too similar to a rude word. Now that's a theory I've not heard before: you could well be right. However, the Wikipedia article on the word in question says that it's not attested in English before 1230 (though it has cognates in Old Norse -- which contributed a lot of vocabulary to English, via the Danelaw settlers -- and in other early Germanic languages), and that as late as Chaucer it was not considered obscene (though by Shakespeare's time it was). But I suppose it wouldn't have to be obscene to cause problems: puerile humour appears to be part of the human condition, and we can imagine the sniggering today if a conquering foreign power tried to impose a governing class with titles that sounded like "buttock" or "scrotum". [Edits: improve phrasing; fix spelling & random capitals.]
- glibgil 12y agoYou're talking about 'cunt', right?
- abrowne 12y agoYes, and they would have sounded more similar before the great vowel shift.
- lotsofmangos 12y agoChaucer has it written as 'queynte', so the words may have actually sounded more different.
- abrowne 12y agoThe OED's earliest attestations is 'cunte' (first in 'Gropecuntelane').
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- vampirechicken 12y ago> a governing class with titles that sounded like "buttock" or "scrotum". Titles of those who server in a bi-cameral legislature.
- dghf 12y agoI did wonder if that was the Normans reconnecting with their Viking roots, as it was the Danish kings of England who first used the word as a title for provincial rulers, in its Norse form jarl.
- lotsofmangos 12y agoGiven that the wife of an Earl is still a countess, I am not sure about the rude word theory as cunt used to be a lot less taboo. The streets used by prostitutes throughout many towns in England were called Gropecunt Lane until well into the 1500's.
- ajcarpy2005 12y agoProstitutes have been taboo for quite some time so by association, that street name would be too. Interesting that it would be allowed as a public road name perhaps but I assume still taboo.
- abrowne 12y agoThat's a good point, and countess has a pretty early attestation. Thinking about French too, con is pretty close to comte, although I don't know the history, and con is not obscene like in English currently. The Wikipedia page on "Earl"[1] has a quote with citation agreeing with the theory. I wonder if that book has any more evidence. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl#Etymology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl#Etymology
- yen223 12y agoIs that why we pronounce "country" the way we do?
- rmc 12y ago> the rulers remained earls, probably because 'count' was too similar to a rude word. Shakespear's plays often have characters talking about "country matters", as well...
- raldi 12y agoAnd from "shire reeve" we got "sheriff".