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"The correct answer is: who gives a shit?" -- Triumph Can someone explain what we gain by studying this question? It seems vastly pointless to me. No one would

"The correct answer is: who gives a shit?" -- Triumph Can someone explain what we gain by studying this question? It seems vastly pointless to me. No one would seriously attempt to learn anything by finding evidence for the contrapositive this way; if no one is doing it, why should we study the oddness of this manner of inquiry?

bshimmin 12y ago
(I suspect your comment may not be wildly popular...) I must admit, while I was mildly interested by it, it did strike me as the kind of "philosophising" that your regular bloke down the pub would find rather baffling - "I know ravens are black. You know ravens are black. Why are we even discussing this?"
- mbillie1 12y ago
  It is a helpful context in which to view the seemingly "logical" arguments you hear all the time from politicians and moralists of all persuasion. A reminder that a good-sounding, intuitively appealing argument can have absurd or utterly fallacious conclusions.
  - astazangasta 12y ago
    Except this is exactly the opposite of that: a logically sound argument that is, intuitively, utter garbage.
- Someone 12y ago
  We also knew no swans are black, yet we theorized their existence (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Swan_emblems_and_popular_culture#European_myth_and_metaphor http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Swan_emblems_and_popula...)
- Squarel 12y ago
  Well, for me it is more about recognising fallacies. How often do we hear variations on the Black Swan fallacy, and how often do people fall for it,and repeat it in discussions? Your regular bloke down the pub finds Schroedinger and chaos theory rather pointless as well (And to be honest "Just make the damn box out of perspex" is a fairly sensible response to Schroedinger.), but that does not make the study of theoretical concepts and logic pointless. For example, I am fascinated by the philosophy of science, how people got to thinking something, and what was going on around them that influenced them. I am also fascinated by the anthropology surrounding the formation of religion. Both relatively pointless, but ultimately understanding why we think something helps move us forward. PS: I still think "If a tree falls...." is very baffling ;)
sullyj3 12y ago
It's fun. What, do you think people do maths and logic for some kind of practical, real world benefit? What a bizarre notion! (tongue firmly planted in cheek here)
drabiega 12y ago
People working to understand and improve the structure of logic? The whole point is that no one would attempt to learn that way, despite the fact that mechanical application of logic says that it provides information.
dsjoerg 12y ago
This question teaches us something about how formal reasoning does and doesn't work, and does and doesn't correspond to common-sense ideas like "supporting evidence" and "relevant". Then you might ask, why do we care about how formal reasoning works? Because the alternative, common-sense reasoning, works really well up to a point, after which it fails badly.

bshimmin 12y ago

(I suspect your comment may not be wildly popular...) I must admit, while I was mildly interested by it, it did strike me as the kind of "philosophising" that your regular bloke down the pub would find rather baffling - "I know ravens are black. You know ravens are black. Why are we even discussing this?"

mbillie1 12y ago
It is a helpful context in which to view the seemingly "logical" arguments you hear all the time from politicians and moralists of all persuasion. A reminder that a good-sounding, intuitively appealing argument can have absurd or utterly fallacious conclusions.
- astazangasta 12y ago
  Except this is exactly the opposite of that: a logically sound argument that is, intuitively, utter garbage.
Someone 12y ago
We also knew no swans are black, yet we theorized their existence (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Swan_emblems_and_popular_culture#European_myth_and_metaphor http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Swan_emblems_and_popula...)
Squarel 12y ago
Well, for me it is more about recognising fallacies. How often do we hear variations on the Black Swan fallacy, and how often do people fall for it,and repeat it in discussions? Your regular bloke down the pub finds Schroedinger and chaos theory rather pointless as well (And to be honest "Just make the damn box out of perspex" is a fairly sensible response to Schroedinger.), but that does not make the study of theoretical concepts and logic pointless. For example, I am fascinated by the philosophy of science, how people got to thinking something, and what was going on around them that influenced them. I am also fascinated by the anthropology surrounding the formation of religion. Both relatively pointless, but ultimately understanding why we think something helps move us forward. PS: I still think "If a tree falls...." is very baffling ;)

sullyj3 12y ago

It's fun. What, do you think people do maths and logic for some kind of practical, real world benefit? What a bizarre notion! (tongue firmly planted in cheek here)

drabiega 12y ago

People working to understand and improve the structure of logic? The whole point is that no one would attempt to learn that way, despite the fact that mechanical application of logic says that it provides information.

dsjoerg 12y ago

This question teaches us something about how formal reasoning does and doesn't work, and does and doesn't correspond to common-sense ideas like "supporting evidence" and "relevant". Then you might ask, why do we care about how formal reasoning works? Because the alternative, common-sense reasoning, works really well up to a point, after which it fails badly.