6 ms·

So... Essentially an UDOO, but less powerful and (or so it seems from the picture) a different pin layout, making it incompatible with existing shields..?

iwwr 12y ago
It looks compatible with Uno shields, but adds more pins at 3.3V on the side.
ambrop7 12y ago
Agree. It's time to leave AVR uC's behind. There are many ARM chips on the market which are both faster and cheaper than AVR.
- CamperBob2 12y ago
  Fast and cheap are not the only criteria. What ARM chips have the same peripherals as an AVR?
  - danellis 12y ago
    About a billion Cortex-M based MCUs from Atmel, ST, TI, NXP, etc. They typically have: GPIO with PWM, UART, SPI, I2C, I2S, Ethernet, USB (host, device, OTG), CAN, RS-423, SDIO... What peripherals do you think might be missing?
    - CamperBob2 12y ago
      Look at it from a different perspective. I agree that an argument centered on peripheral availability is no longer as applicable as it was just a couple of years ago. - No chip that needs an OS can truly replace an AVR. - No chip that takes more than two seconds to boot up can truly replace an AVR. - No chip with a 2,000-page data sheet can truly replace an AVR. - No chip that requires binary blobs to do anything interesting can truly replace an AVR. - No chip that's available only in a BGA or other leadless package can truly replace an AVR. - No chip that requires a 1-gigabyte toolchain installation (or, Woz forbid, a "cloud"-based toolchain) can truly replace an AVR. In general, no chip that wasn't explicitly designed to be easy to use by nonexperts can truly replace an AVR. Even lack of 5-volt compatibility has proven a handicap for some suitable candidates like the Cortex-M3 part used in the Arduino Due. Nobody in the hobbyist market cares if the chip costs $0.50 or $5.00. Their time is worth more than that. An 8-bit AVR can run 32-bit C code all day long without requiring the user to become a Linux sysadmin or wade through a bewildering selection of thousands of RTOSes, none of which are perfect for any one job. That is a huge deal.
      - danellis 12y ago
        You asked what ARM could replace an AVR. I said there were lots of ARM Cortex-M based microcontrollers that could. Your response makes no sense. > No chip that needs an OS can truly replace an AVR They don't need an OS. > No chip that takes more than two seconds to boot up can truly replace an AVR No boot up time. They start running your code right away. > No chip with a 2,000-page data sheet can truly replace an AVR. Maybe more like a few hundred. Just like an AVR datasheet. > No chip that requires binary blobs to do anything interesting can truly replace an AVR. They don't. They don't even have GPUs. > No chip that's available only in a BGA or other leadless package can truly replace an AVR. There available in hand-solderable TQFP packages. There are even a couple of DIP ones (8-pin and 28-pin). > No chip that requires a 1-gigabyte toolchain installation I'm pretty sure GCC isn't anywhere near a gigabyte, but it's also the same toolchain used with AVRs. > (or, Woz forbid, a "cloud"-based toolchain) can truly replace an AVR. While they exist, they're not in the slightest bit necessary. > no chip that wasn't explicitly designed to be easy to use by nonexperts in a hardware project can truly replace an AVR. AVRs were also not designed for non-experts. Try reading a datasheet sometime and try to tell me that's written for non-experts. > Even lack of 5-volt compatibility has proven a handicap Lack of 5-volt "compatibility" is an interesting spin on what is essentially a legacy. One could just as easily argue "lack of 3.3V compatibility". Sounds like you need to educate yourself a bit. There's more to microcontrollers than Arduino.
        CamperBob2 12y ago
        Sounds like you need to educate yourself a bit. There's more to microcontrollers than Arduino. I was using AVRs long before the Arduino platform popularized them (does that make me an MCU hipster?) Even ten years ago there were far better chips. Somehow AVR not only outcompeted those chips, but came to utterly dominate its market niche. Why do you suppose that is? Your position is reminiscent of those who expressed incredulity at the success of iOS when it didn't do anything that wasn't already being done at the time it was introduced. There's something you Just Don't Get. If I were you, I'd wonder what that might be.
        danellis 12y ago

iwwr 12y ago

It looks compatible with Uno shields, but adds more pins at 3.3V on the side.

ambrop7 12y ago

Agree. It's time to leave AVR uC's behind. There are many ARM chips on the market which are both faster and cheaper than AVR.

CamperBob2 12y ago
Fast and cheap are not the only criteria. What ARM chips have the same peripherals as an AVR?
- danellis 12y ago
  About a billion Cortex-M based MCUs from Atmel, ST, TI, NXP, etc. They typically have: GPIO with PWM, UART, SPI, I2C, I2S, Ethernet, USB (host, device, OTG), CAN, RS-423, SDIO... What peripherals do you think might be missing?
  - CamperBob2 12y ago
    Look at it from a different perspective. I agree that an argument centered on peripheral availability is no longer as applicable as it was just a couple of years ago. - No chip that needs an OS can truly replace an AVR. - No chip that takes more than two seconds to boot up can truly replace an AVR. - No chip with a 2,000-page data sheet can truly replace an AVR. - No chip that requires binary blobs to do anything interesting can truly replace an AVR. - No chip that's available only in a BGA or other leadless package can truly replace an AVR. - No chip that requires a 1-gigabyte toolchain installation (or, Woz forbid, a "cloud"-based toolchain) can truly replace an AVR. In general, no chip that wasn't explicitly designed to be easy to use by nonexperts can truly replace an AVR. Even lack of 5-volt compatibility has proven a handicap for some suitable candidates like the Cortex-M3 part used in the Arduino Due. Nobody in the hobbyist market cares if the chip costs $0.50 or $5.00. Their time is worth more than that. An 8-bit AVR can run 32-bit C code all day long without requiring the user to become a Linux sysadmin or wade through a bewildering selection of thousands of RTOSes, none of which are perfect for any one job. That is a huge deal.
    - danellis 12y ago
      You asked what ARM could replace an AVR. I said there were lots of ARM Cortex-M based microcontrollers that could. Your response makes no sense. > No chip that needs an OS can truly replace an AVR They don't need an OS. > No chip that takes more than two seconds to boot up can truly replace an AVR No boot up time. They start running your code right away. > No chip with a 2,000-page data sheet can truly replace an AVR. Maybe more like a few hundred. Just like an AVR datasheet. > No chip that requires binary blobs to do anything interesting can truly replace an AVR. They don't. They don't even have GPUs. > No chip that's available only in a BGA or other leadless package can truly replace an AVR. There available in hand-solderable TQFP packages. There are even a couple of DIP ones (8-pin and 28-pin). > No chip that requires a 1-gigabyte toolchain installation I'm pretty sure GCC isn't anywhere near a gigabyte, but it's also the same toolchain used with AVRs. > (or, Woz forbid, a "cloud"-based toolchain) can truly replace an AVR. While they exist, they're not in the slightest bit necessary. > no chip that wasn't explicitly designed to be easy to use by nonexperts in a hardware project can truly replace an AVR. AVRs were also not designed for non-experts. Try reading a datasheet sometime and try to tell me that's written for non-experts. > Even lack of 5-volt compatibility has proven a handicap Lack of 5-volt "compatibility" is an interesting spin on what is essentially a legacy. One could just as easily argue "lack of 3.3V compatibility". Sounds like you need to educate yourself a bit. There's more to microcontrollers than Arduino.
      - CamperBob2 12y ago
        Sounds like you need to educate yourself a bit. There's more to microcontrollers than Arduino. I was using AVRs long before the Arduino platform popularized them (does that make me an MCU hipster?) Even ten years ago there were far better chips. Somehow AVR not only outcompeted those chips, but came to utterly dominate its market niche. Why do you suppose that is? Your position is reminiscent of those who expressed incredulity at the success of iOS when it didn't do anything that wasn't already being done at the time it was introduced. There's something you Just Don't Get. If I were you, I'd wonder what that might be.
        danellis 12y ago