4 ms·

Legitimate question, because I don't see any reality in which overzealous DA's will not abuse this to exert pressure without due process. I pay my taxes. I am

by j42 12y ago

Legitimate question, because I don't see any reality in which overzealous DA's will not abuse this to exert pressure without due process. I pay my taxes. I am a law abiding citizen. If I want to store the majority of my assets outside of this country (in a fiat currency), preferably in a location that doesn't automatically cave to US economic pressure and/or with limited diplomatic channels, what are my options? Hypothetically, what would give you semi-reasonable freedom to transfer and spend that money, while still keeping it insulated from a government that wantonly steals from its citizens without discretion? ----- I always used to think in the "worst case" scenario the EFF would be the safe-haven of reason, able to exert equal and opposite pressure to any intimidation tactics, but I think that balance has forever shifted. I no longer feel safe or represented within this country, and while I still value my citizenship (a debate for another time), I think we all must recognize that personal insurances and safeguards are now requisite when dealing with the federal government. I'd rather be prepared.

pmorici 12y ago
"Hypothetically, what would give you semi-reasonable freedom to transfer and spend that money, while still keeping it insulated from a government that wantonly steals from its citizens without discretion?" Bitcoin.
- j42 12y ago
  > Fiat I love bitcoin. I'm a proponent, and a casual developer of related services. But there's no way I'd use it to store sizable assets, which should be obvious--volatility (particularly related to large sell orders) and the current state of exchanges, to say two? I'm also as optimistic as anyone, but the reality is simply that it's more likely bitcoin will devalue before established governments and the IMF, despite their MANY glaring problems. It's just not feasible as a primary means of asset storage or point-of-sale currency yet.
delbel 12y ago
Perth mint certificates is one option I can think of. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perth_Mint_Certificate_Program http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perth_Mint_Certificate_Progra...
- j42 12y ago
  That sounds like exactly what I'm looking for, thought the general reactivity of the Australian government makes me question its insulation... Catch-22 I guess. Not sure how to get the AAA-rating and liquidity it provides without being entirely within the sphere of US economic dominance; perfectly safe, right until they decide a little political/economic pressure is warranted.
skolor 12y ago
Its my understanding that this just adds another reason the Secretary of the Treasury can add someone to the SND list[1]. The ability to this already exists for other reasons, such as "terrorism" and drug trafficking. The executive order just added "Cyber" to that list. [1]: http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/SDN-List/Pages/default.aspx http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/SDN-List/P...
SeoxyS 12y ago
Foreign banks. Unfortunately, if you're a US citizen, the ability to use Swiss banks went away in 2009. There's always the Cayman Islands and other tax havens with banking secrecy laws. Another options is to buy illiquid assets. Invest in private company stocks, for example. The government cannot really freeze or seize illiquid equity. That said - I am not a lawyer, and I could be completely wrong.

by j42 12y ago

pmorici 12y ago

"Hypothetically, what would give you semi-reasonable freedom to transfer and spend that money, while still keeping it insulated from a government that wantonly steals from its citizens without discretion?" Bitcoin.

j42 12y ago
> Fiat I love bitcoin. I'm a proponent, and a casual developer of related services. But there's no way I'd use it to store sizable assets, which should be obvious--volatility (particularly related to large sell orders) and the current state of exchanges, to say two? I'm also as optimistic as anyone, but the reality is simply that it's more likely bitcoin will devalue before established governments and the IMF, despite their MANY glaring problems. It's just not feasible as a primary means of asset storage or point-of-sale currency yet.

delbel 12y ago

Perth mint certificates is one option I can think of. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perth_Mint_Certificate_Program http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perth_Mint_Certificate_Progra...

j42 12y ago
That sounds like exactly what I'm looking for, thought the general reactivity of the Australian government makes me question its insulation... Catch-22 I guess. Not sure how to get the AAA-rating and liquidity it provides without being entirely within the sphere of US economic dominance; perfectly safe, right until they decide a little political/economic pressure is warranted.

skolor 12y ago

Its my understanding that this just adds another reason the Secretary of the Treasury can add someone to the SND list[1]. The ability to this already exists for other reasons, such as "terrorism" and drug trafficking. The executive order just added "Cyber" to that list. [1]: http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/SDN-List/Pages/default.aspx http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/SDN-List/P...

SeoxyS 12y ago

Foreign banks. Unfortunately, if you're a US citizen, the ability to use Swiss banks went away in 2009. There's always the Cayman Islands and other tax havens with banking secrecy laws. Another options is to buy illiquid assets. Invest in private company stocks, for example. The government cannot really freeze or seize illiquid equity. That said - I am not a lawyer, and I could be completely wrong.