3 ms·

I think I agree with the spirit of this guideline, but I have serious doubts that it can work. Here's why: I joined HN a year or two ago. I didn't go back and r

by vitd 12y ago

I think I agree with the spirit of this guideline, but I have serious doubts that it can work. Here's why: I joined HN a year or two ago. I didn't go back and read any posts written before I joined. Anyone joining after today will have no idea that this is the way things are supposed to be. Further, I suspect (though I hope I'm wrong) that a rule like this could end up causing the same issues that people here complain about with Stack Overflow. Namely, we'll end up with a brigade of people who feel it's their job to keep the "gratuitous negativity" to a minimum. The only problem is that everyone will have a different idea of what constitutes "gratuitous". But I hope to be proven wrong!

dang 12y ago
> I think I agree with the spirit of this guideline, but I have serious doubts that it can work. Let's see. HN is experimental, and this is just another experiment. If it works, it will be because community members help shift the culture in a higher-quality direction. That, by the way, is also how newcomers find out about these things. Rules don't communicate themselves, but culture does.
- zrail 12y ago
  Putting the rules on the comment page might help, though. Not just a link, either, but the whole set of guidelines, along with a statement to the effect that, by posting, you agree to abide by the guidelines. A constant reminder that this is a community with certain expectations of it's members.
- solve 12y ago
  Dang, what's the percentage of active / new users who visit the guidelines page? Can you measure this in the website analytics? > Rules don't communicate themselves, but culture does. At this point, you should really just copy the methods that Producthunt used to shape their community culture. Their strategy was perfect. In PH's case, it wasn't some intangible culture persuading people how to act, it was the founders directly telling people that being supportive and friendly is absolutely required, or else you'll be banned from commenting. See their 3 great recent videos on this precise topic: https://courses.platzi.com/classes/build-grow-online-communities/concepto/how-to-build-and-grow-online-communities-by-produc/product-hunt-live-class-part-1/material/ https://courses.platzi.com/classes/build-grow-online-communi...
  - dang 12y ago
    I think that would be going too far. There are many ways to comment substantively and civilly. Being supportive and friendly isn't absolutely required.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - solve 12y ago
      Interesting choice of metrics. I'll just point out this community culture difference: - Mods on sites like PH tend to measure quality by the results of how the comments are likely to affect the post's creator. E.g. Could a comment contribute to preventing the next AirBnB from happening. No metrics that can be gamed to get around that. - HN mods seem to be measuring quality through simple crude metrics like civility and substantiveness. Is HN really that unwilling to consider how the comments emotionally affect the creators? Trying to put this in the nicest way, the HN mods come across as autistic and emotionally detached. It's actually very easy for a regular person to understand whether a comment will be inclined to making someone want to quit working on the creation they've shared, no matter how civil or substantively it's written
      - dang 12y ago
        > Trying to put this in the nicest way, the HN mods come across as autistic and emotionally detached The nicest way? :) Assumptions that work at one scale stop working at the next, which is one reason this stuff is hard. You're making assumptions about "regular persons" and what's "very easy" that aren't true of the HN community as a whole. We couldn't enforce those by decree even if we wanted to.
        solve 12y ago
        I can see what you mean about the scaling problems.

by vitd 12y ago

dang 12y ago

> I think I agree with the spirit of this guideline, but I have serious doubts that it can work. Let's see. HN is experimental, and this is just another experiment. If it works, it will be because community members help shift the culture in a higher-quality direction. That, by the way, is also how newcomers find out about these things. Rules don't communicate themselves, but culture does.

zrail 12y ago
Putting the rules on the comment page might help, though. Not just a link, either, but the whole set of guidelines, along with a statement to the effect that, by posting, you agree to abide by the guidelines. A constant reminder that this is a community with certain expectations of it's members.
solve 12y ago
Dang, what's the percentage of active / new users who visit the guidelines page? Can you measure this in the website analytics? > Rules don't communicate themselves, but culture does. At this point, you should really just copy the methods that Producthunt used to shape their community culture. Their strategy was perfect. In PH's case, it wasn't some intangible culture persuading people how to act, it was the founders directly telling people that being supportive and friendly is absolutely required, or else you'll be banned from commenting. See their 3 great recent videos on this precise topic: https://courses.platzi.com/classes/build-grow-online-communities/concepto/how-to-build-and-grow-online-communities-by-produc/product-hunt-live-class-part-1/material/ https://courses.platzi.com/classes/build-grow-online-communi...
- dang 12y ago
  I think that would be going too far. There are many ways to comment substantively and civilly. Being supportive and friendly isn't absolutely required.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - solve 12y ago
    Interesting choice of metrics. I'll just point out this community culture difference: - Mods on sites like PH tend to measure quality by the results of how the comments are likely to affect the post's creator. E.g. Could a comment contribute to preventing the next AirBnB from happening. No metrics that can be gamed to get around that. - HN mods seem to be measuring quality through simple crude metrics like civility and substantiveness. Is HN really that unwilling to consider how the comments emotionally affect the creators? Trying to put this in the nicest way, the HN mods come across as autistic and emotionally detached. It's actually very easy for a regular person to understand whether a comment will be inclined to making someone want to quit working on the creation they've shared, no matter how civil or substantively it's written
    - dang 12y ago
      > Trying to put this in the nicest way, the HN mods come across as autistic and emotionally detached The nicest way? :) Assumptions that work at one scale stop working at the next, which is one reason this stuff is hard. You're making assumptions about "regular persons" and what's "very easy" that aren't true of the HN community as a whole. We couldn't enforce those by decree even if we wanted to.
      - solve 12y ago
        I can see what you mean about the scaling problems.