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I left math for a totally different reason and I'm almost embarrassed to talk about it. A little background... I worked full time through college and graduate

by edw519 17y ago

I left math for a totally different reason and I'm almost embarrassed to talk about it. A little background... I worked full time through college and graduated with less than $100 in the bank. I had opportunities to go on to graduate school for either math or business. Every professor in our math department drove an older subcompact except the department head who drove a Chevy Impala. Imagine, work your whole life, get to the top of your field, and drive an Impala! I had struggled too long to set myself up for more struggle. So I went on to get my MBA, learned how to program, and have never had a lack of good quality, high paying work. I'm a little embarrassed that I was so shallow back then, but maybe my subconscious was trying to tell me something. I love math, but I'm sure glad I made the choice I did. At a recent math reunion, I felt right at home once again. I met a buddy who graduated with me and continued on to become a tenured math professor at a major university. I asked him how he felt about his choice. He told me, "I'll never be rich, but I teach calculus for 8 hours per week 9 months per year, I don't have to publish, and my wife and I have visited over 100 countries. Not a bad life at all."

wtallis 17y ago
What kind of math department were you at? It may be due to the slight applied-leaning nature of my department, but the top professors earn six-figure salaries, and the assistant department head that I do research with drives a very nice, new BMW SUV. Still, your friend's point about his lifestyle is important. Teachers at any level are seldom paid well, but the work environment and schedule often make up for it, so long as you still enjoy teaching. Just consider how in the business world, the concept of a sabbatical is often quite foreign.
duh 17y ago
> I'll never be rich This seems like something of a false dichotomy to me. The professors at my school (UCSD) in math, econ, and engineering were all industry consultants and/or entrepreneurs and drove around in very nice cars like Porsches, Benzes, Lexus etc. (I never saw their houses but a good many of them live in La Jolla). In fact, many of them were so busy with their 'extracurricular' activities that they sometimes attempted (unsuccessfully) to schedule exams and lectures at hours like 7am or 9pm. The Chancellor drove a turbo porsche! I can only imagine what the faculty at a school like Stanford is like... It always seemed to me that being a professor opened doors into industry, instead of 'locking' you down.
- wtallis 17y ago
  My impression is that professors get to work with industry on their terms: they only collaborate for specific projects that are of interest to them, and they do it in a non-corporate environment, with students to do most of the dirty work.
- aaronblohowiak 17y ago
  My neighbor drives a BMW convertible, pays around 1700/month in rent and is a polisci professor at Stanford.
- hyperbovine 17y ago
  There's a noticeable gradient in car preferences as you go from northern to southern California. At multiple points in my career at UC Berkeley, I saw older model, unshowy American cars parked in the "NL" parking spots. (Guess what NL stands for, hint not a country in Europe.) After I graduated and started working in the Bay Area I met many people would could not have been making <$200k driving normal everyday cars. The most extreme example would be someone whom I knew for a fact was worth eight figures driving a Cadillac. It was shiny and new but, really? A Caddy? As I went to high school in LA, where it seems like 2/3 of the population over 20 is driving a late model BMW, this was something of a eye-opener: a lot of rich people just aren't that into cars. That, and the whole conspicuous consumption thing is a lot more en vogue in some places than in others. So to answer your question, the faculty at Stanford probably drive a lot of Hondas. (Someone chime in if I'm wrong, haven't been to the Farm in a while.)
  - duh 17y ago
    I have no idea what you're talking about, Silicon Valley and SF are filled to the brim with expensive and exotic cars. Cruise around Atherton and Los Altos hills or go to downtown PA or the nice parts of cupertino - Ferraris, Astons, Porsches, BMW, Lexus, etc, etc. Even as far as Santa Cruz I have seen plenty of people in their nice sports cars driving fast on 17 all the time. This notion that "rich people aren't into cars" in northern california is absolutely laughable. Sure there are MORE nice cars in LA, but that's only because LA is a much larger metro area. I've lived in both the bay and LA and I can tell that this game of "spot the differences" that so many people play are observations based on selection and confirmation bias. You're just looking for evidence that supports ideas you already have. In my opinion SF and LA are pretty much the exact same culturally. People from SF just hate to admit it.
lliiffee 17y ago
> Every professor in our math department drove an older subcompact except the department head who drove a Chevy Impala. Imagine, work your whole life, get to the top of your field, and drive an Impala! Might this be cultural? Most of my professors in grad school also drove rather inexpensive cars. It certainly wasn't because they couldn't afford better. They would have been thought somehow 'unserious' to buy an expensive car.
- yummyfajitas 17y ago
  It's almost definitely cultural. My adviser drives a Mercedes. Everyone else finds his tastes to be strange but harmless. On the other hand, he probably pulls more than the rest of the department put together...
- cosbynator 17y ago
  In Ontario we have some crazy law that forces all public sector salaries over $100,000 to be disclosed. For example, here is Waterloo's: http://uwaterloo.ca/documents/sal2008.php http://uwaterloo.ca/documents/sal2008.php (incidentally with a pretty respected mathematics department). A little shocking at first, but most of the people are deserving.
  - WilliamLP 17y ago
    I don't think that's a crazy law, I think that's an awesome law! Ironically, it probably helps to drive up the salaries of professors quite a lot.
    - redder1 17y ago
      Yes, if this was universally true, it would help employees negotiate. Employers sometimes claim that the goal is to reduce jealousy, but the public employees in states with this sort of law do just fine.
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
  - 17y ago
jpeterson 17y ago
Imagine, work your whole life, get to the top of your field, and drive an Impala! So what? Not everyone defines the quality of their life by what car they drive.
- nazgulnarsil 17y ago
  It's not about the car. the car is a signal for other quality of life factors.
  - bartl 17y ago
    blank stare I don't have a car. What does that tell you about the quality of my life?
cma 17y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Theory_of_the_Leisure_Class http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Theory_of_the_Leisure_Class
- wingo 17y ago
  I'm reading this now. It is the driest prose I have seen in 10 years.
  - cma 17y ago
    Judging from the overall satiric tone, it is dry on purpose. Especially considering that other Veblen stuff isn't as dry.

by edw519 17y ago

wtallis 17y ago

What kind of math department were you at? It may be due to the slight applied-leaning nature of my department, but the top professors earn six-figure salaries, and the assistant department head that I do research with drives a very nice, new BMW SUV. Still, your friend's point about his lifestyle is important. Teachers at any level are seldom paid well, but the work environment and schedule often make up for it, so long as you still enjoy teaching. Just consider how in the business world, the concept of a sabbatical is often quite foreign.

duh 17y ago

> I'll never be rich This seems like something of a false dichotomy to me. The professors at my school (UCSD) in math, econ, and engineering were all industry consultants and/or entrepreneurs and drove around in very nice cars like Porsches, Benzes, Lexus etc. (I never saw their houses but a good many of them live in La Jolla). In fact, many of them were so busy with their 'extracurricular' activities that they sometimes attempted (unsuccessfully) to schedule exams and lectures at hours like 7am or 9pm. The Chancellor drove a turbo porsche! I can only imagine what the faculty at a school like Stanford is like... It always seemed to me that being a professor opened doors into industry, instead of 'locking' you down.

wtallis 17y ago
My impression is that professors get to work with industry on their terms: they only collaborate for specific projects that are of interest to them, and they do it in a non-corporate environment, with students to do most of the dirty work.
aaronblohowiak 17y ago
My neighbor drives a BMW convertible, pays around 1700/month in rent and is a polisci professor at Stanford.
hyperbovine 17y ago
There's a noticeable gradient in car preferences as you go from northern to southern California. At multiple points in my career at UC Berkeley, I saw older model, unshowy American cars parked in the "NL" parking spots. (Guess what NL stands for, hint not a country in Europe.) After I graduated and started working in the Bay Area I met many people would could not have been making <$200k driving normal everyday cars. The most extreme example would be someone whom I knew for a fact was worth eight figures driving a Cadillac. It was shiny and new but, really? A Caddy? As I went to high school in LA, where it seems like 2/3 of the population over 20 is driving a late model BMW, this was something of a eye-opener: a lot of rich people just aren't that into cars. That, and the whole conspicuous consumption thing is a lot more en vogue in some places than in others. So to answer your question, the faculty at Stanford probably drive a lot of Hondas. (Someone chime in if I'm wrong, haven't been to the Farm in a while.)
- duh 17y ago
  I have no idea what you're talking about, Silicon Valley and SF are filled to the brim with expensive and exotic cars. Cruise around Atherton and Los Altos hills or go to downtown PA or the nice parts of cupertino - Ferraris, Astons, Porsches, BMW, Lexus, etc, etc. Even as far as Santa Cruz I have seen plenty of people in their nice sports cars driving fast on 17 all the time. This notion that "rich people aren't into cars" in northern california is absolutely laughable. Sure there are MORE nice cars in LA, but that's only because LA is a much larger metro area. I've lived in both the bay and LA and I can tell that this game of "spot the differences" that so many people play are observations based on selection and confirmation bias. You're just looking for evidence that supports ideas you already have. In my opinion SF and LA are pretty much the exact same culturally. People from SF just hate to admit it.

lliiffee 17y ago

> Every professor in our math department drove an older subcompact except the department head who drove a Chevy Impala. Imagine, work your whole life, get to the top of your field, and drive an Impala! Might this be cultural? Most of my professors in grad school also drove rather inexpensive cars. It certainly wasn't because they couldn't afford better. They would have been thought somehow 'unserious' to buy an expensive car.

yummyfajitas 17y ago
It's almost definitely cultural. My adviser drives a Mercedes. Everyone else finds his tastes to be strange but harmless. On the other hand, he probably pulls more than the rest of the department put together...
cosbynator 17y ago
In Ontario we have some crazy law that forces all public sector salaries over $100,000 to be disclosed. For example, here is Waterloo's: http://uwaterloo.ca/documents/sal2008.php http://uwaterloo.ca/documents/sal2008.php (incidentally with a pretty respected mathematics department). A little shocking at first, but most of the people are deserving.
- WilliamLP 17y ago
  I don't think that's a crazy law, I think that's an awesome law! Ironically, it probably helps to drive up the salaries of professors quite a lot.
  - redder1 17y ago
    Yes, if this was universally true, it would help employees negotiate. Employers sometimes claim that the goal is to reduce jealousy, but the public employees in states with this sort of law do just fine.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
- 17y ago

jpeterson 17y ago

Imagine, work your whole life, get to the top of your field, and drive an Impala! So what? Not everyone defines the quality of their life by what car they drive.

nazgulnarsil 17y ago
It's not about the car. the car is a signal for other quality of life factors.
- bartl 17y ago
  blank stare I don't have a car. What does that tell you about the quality of my life?

cma 17y ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Theory_of_the_Leisure_Class http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Theory_of_the_Leisure_Class

wingo 17y ago
I'm reading this now. It is the driest prose I have seen in 10 years.
- cma 17y ago
  Judging from the overall satiric tone, it is dry on purpose. Especially considering that other Veblen stuff isn't as dry.