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Open letter to Garbage from photographer Pat Pope over paying to use his photos

tessierashpool 12y ago
in the spirit of "saved you a click," I'll try to save you a Google, with some context re the "Shirley's recent letter to Kanye" reference. Garbage's singer wrote an open letter calling out Kanye West for calling out Beck for winning a Grammy. this letter calls out the singer for calling out Kanye for calling out Beck. basically: Kanye: "you should give the Grammy to Beyoncé, to show respect for artistry." Shirley: "you should shut the fuck up, to show respect for artistry." photographer: "you should pay me if you want to use my work, to show respect for artistry." basically, the artists' opinions here grow progressively less ridiculous as the artists' incomes approach the poverty level. which kind of bothers me. edit: the artists' opinions also grow progressively less ridiculous as a function of the artists' distance from Kanye West.
- patorjk 12y ago
  Actually, that letter wasn't written to Kanye West. It was written to an anonymous person, who a reporter assumed was West and the story spread from there. Shirley later went on record saying it wasn't written to West, but instead to a record industry insider.
- woof 12y ago
  You missed the important parts and brought in Kanye West -to "save us a click"? WTF? Please read the letter from mr. Pope again, the moronic answer from Garbage on facebook (https://www.facebook.com/GarbageOfficial/posts/981221691888682 https://www.facebook.com/GarbageOfficial/posts/9812216918886...) and _think_!
woof 12y ago
Moronic "answer" from Garbage on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/GarbageOfficial/posts/981221691888682 https://www.facebook.com/GarbageOfficial/posts/9812216918886... They don't answer Pat's questions, don't understand the whole "payment" thingey and actually believes PAYING for something in 1995 should be enough... Are they actually too stupid too understand?
- chris_j 12y ago
  I interpret Garbage's response as saying that they aren't going to make a profit on the book and that they are asking photographers to give them permission to use their photographs gratis in order to keep the price of the book down. I've seen artists do similar recently. What's moronic about that?
  - woof 12y ago
    I really don't know where to start... Try to answer the two simple questions Pat Pope asked and Garbage didn't answer.
  - geoelectric 12y ago
    What's unclear to me is that Pat Pope says they -told- him the photographs were being used, whereas the response implies he was -asked- if they could be used. I have no issue with people (Amanda Palmer or otherwise) asking for help at whatever price they want, including free. I think the crowd that gets offended over even asking isn't in the right, and that "no" is a fine answer, as is "yes," or "for tree fiddy" or anything in between. But if they contacted Pat Pope and just informed him these older photos would be used, outside any rights granted, that would be a far different story.
    - chrismcb 12y ago
      Pat pope says he was asked. He was told the band liked some of his photos and could they be used free if charge with attribution. What is missing is whether the original query made it clear that this was a collaboration.
      - woof 12y ago
        Is your definition of collaboration "not paying the photographers, but everyone else"?
      - geoelectric 12y ago
        Re-read, and yeah. He doesn't really say it outright, unless it's further down, but does word it as "they would like" and "in return." I really don't see the issue. Just reply that you don't work for free and be done with it. I feel like people must get up in arms over this because they're afraid the value of their own work will drop if other people give it away, or something like that. Otherwise it's simply a "it's insulting to think I'd work for free" thing, which simply sounds kind of arrogant to me. I don't feel threatened by open-source software, even BSD-licensed stuff where someone might sell my contribution, so I'm not real clear where they're coming from. All they have to do is say no. If everyone says no, the situation will change. If everyone doesn't say no, then it's a damned good thing that Pat Pope doesn't speak for the person who actually wants to do it, then.

in the spirit of "saved you a click," I'll try to save you a Google, with some context re the "Shirley's recent letter to Kanye" reference. Garbage's singer wrote an open letter calling out Kanye West for calling out Beck for winning a Grammy. this letter calls out the singer for calling out Kanye for calling out Beck. basically: Kanye: "you should give the Grammy to Beyoncé, to show respect for artistry." Shirley: "you should shut the fuck up, to show respect for artistry." photographer: "you should pay me if you want to use my work, to show respect for artistry." basically, the artists' opinions here grow progressively less ridiculous as the artists' incomes approach the poverty level. which kind of bothers me. edit: the artists' opinions also grow progressively less ridiculous as a function of the artists' distance from Kanye West.

patorjk 12y ago
Actually, that letter wasn't written to Kanye West. It was written to an anonymous person, who a reporter assumed was West and the story spread from there. Shirley later went on record saying it wasn't written to West, but instead to a record industry insider.
woof 12y ago
You missed the important parts and brought in Kanye West -to "save us a click"? WTF? Please read the letter from mr. Pope again, the moronic answer from Garbage on facebook (https://www.facebook.com/GarbageOfficial/posts/981221691888682 https://www.facebook.com/GarbageOfficial/posts/9812216918886...) and _think_!

woof 12y ago

Moronic "answer" from Garbage on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/GarbageOfficial/posts/981221691888682 https://www.facebook.com/GarbageOfficial/posts/9812216918886... They don't answer Pat's questions, don't understand the whole "payment" thingey and actually believes PAYING for something in 1995 should be enough... Are they actually too stupid too understand?

chris_j 12y ago
I interpret Garbage's response as saying that they aren't going to make a profit on the book and that they are asking photographers to give them permission to use their photographs gratis in order to keep the price of the book down. I've seen artists do similar recently. What's moronic about that?
- woof 12y ago
  I really don't know where to start... Try to answer the two simple questions Pat Pope asked and Garbage didn't answer.
- geoelectric 12y ago
  What's unclear to me is that Pat Pope says they -told- him the photographs were being used, whereas the response implies he was -asked- if they could be used. I have no issue with people (Amanda Palmer or otherwise) asking for help at whatever price they want, including free. I think the crowd that gets offended over even asking isn't in the right, and that "no" is a fine answer, as is "yes," or "for tree fiddy" or anything in between. But if they contacted Pat Pope and just informed him these older photos would be used, outside any rights granted, that would be a far different story.
  - chrismcb 12y ago
    Pat pope says he was asked. He was told the band liked some of his photos and could they be used free if charge with attribution. What is missing is whether the original query made it clear that this was a collaboration.
    - woof 12y ago
      Is your definition of collaboration "not paying the photographers, but everyone else"?
    - geoelectric 12y ago
      Re-read, and yeah. He doesn't really say it outright, unless it's further down, but does word it as "they would like" and "in return." I really don't see the issue. Just reply that you don't work for free and be done with it. I feel like people must get up in arms over this because they're afraid the value of their own work will drop if other people give it away, or something like that. Otherwise it's simply a "it's insulting to think I'd work for free" thing, which simply sounds kind of arrogant to me. I don't feel threatened by open-source software, even BSD-licensed stuff where someone might sell my contribution, so I'm not real clear where they're coming from. All they have to do is say no. If everyone says no, the situation will change. If everyone doesn't say no, then it's a damned good thing that Pat Pope doesn't speak for the person who actually wants to do it, then.