8 ms·

I wish the US go home instead of seeding war anywhere they go. I visited Ukraine last month and one of the best things I saw was that war there was contained a

I wish the US go home instead of seeding war anywhere they go. I visited Ukraine last month and one of the best things I saw was that war there was contained and "light" using mostly light weapons. Russia probably has not the tech the US has, but Europe does, and Europe does not need a heavy nuclear war or loosing their main energy supplier(Russia).

happyscrappy 12y ago
Europe is too important to US power to be trusted with their own defense.
rimantas 12y ago
Europe needs the bully who feels free to do whatever comes to mind (like grabbing territory of the another country) even less.
- cpursley 12y ago
  You mean a territory that belonged to them only a few decades before? This idea that Russia wants to take back its former USSR territories is a fantasy.
- gear54rus 12y ago
  > Europe needs the bully who feels free to do whatever comes to mind I can see how NATO came to be then...
briandear 12y ago
The U.S. invaded The Crimea? Weird. Chechnya, Degestan? The U.S. seeded war in the Balkans? I remember all those U.S. supplied snipers in Savajevo killing civilians in Sniper Alley.. How about all of those American made AK-47s being used across Africa? I'm not sure how discouraging Russian and Islamic expansionism is somehow 'seeding war.' I don't recall Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait being 'seeded' by the U.S. During the Korean War, it was the Chinese supported North that attacked the South. How about Tibet? Or pretty much every conflict in Africa? This "America as invader" meme has no basis in reality or fact. The U.S. just doesn't sit around throwing darts on maps to pick countries to invade. We could suggest that countries like France in Africa and Indochina, the British with Northern Ireland and the Faulklands, the Germans (twice) in Europe, the Italians in Ethiopia and Libya, the Egyptians in the Six Day war and the Yom Kippir War.. The U.S. has been the belligerents in very few conflicts. We could talk about the Cubans in Grenada, the Soviets in Afghanistan.. The U.S. isn't perfect, but they definitely don't spend their time invading their neighbors because of some ethnic claim or another. The U.S. is involved in many places but there's a big difference between getting involved defensively as opposed to offensive, territorial-grabbing objectives such as seen in the Ukraine and the Caucasus. By the way, I am not passing judgement on any country; it's just important to maintain perspective based on facts and not some knee-jerk assumption. Ask Poland and the Baltics if they want the U.S. around. Huge majorities would say yes. Woukd you rather have the US sit in the sidelines while Russia marches unchecked to the German border?
- warkid 12y ago
  Wow, please, easy mister Obama, nobody's going to take you Peace Prize back!
- shit_parade 12y ago
  It's no longer 1930 and the US no longer has any claim to moral superiority. The in the last decade US policy has killed hundreds of thousands. I suggest you update your knowledge of history.
ajuc 12y ago
EU won't lose Russia as energy source. Russia would do it already if it could, but half of its budget comes from gas and oil sales (huge majority - to EU). And EU as a whole gets most of energy from outside Russia. It would hurt Russia a lot more than EU. And nuclear war is right off. On the other hand behaving like it's 1939 in modern Europe must be punished, or we will get more wars eventually, so Russia brought its own demise on itself, and it drags parts of Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia and others with it.
- trhway 12y ago
  >On the other hand behaving like it's 1939 in modern Europe must be punished, and that exactly what Russia did when Western Ukraine nationalist forces grabbed the power in Kiev through the military coup and threatened to do to ethnic Russians what the same nationalist forces did to ethnic Poles in Western Ukraine during WWII http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army#Ethnic_cleansing_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Galicia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army#Ethnic... . Their WWII leader - Bandera - is openly revered as national hero by the current powers in Kiev.
  - ajuc 12y ago
    I happen to be from eastern Poland. I know people that lost family members to Russians in Katyn, to Ukrainians in Wolyn, and to Germans in whole Poland. That is history. I see no connection between W2 and Majdan. But I see connections between 1938 and Crimea. BTW Bandera had nothing on Stalin when it comes to murdering civilians, and there are 1000s monuments of Stalin in Russia, and your president called the fall of USSR the greatest tragedy of XXth century... Anyway - this doesn't matter. You lie regarding the nationalist forces (look up the percentage won by right wing parties in elections after Majdan - less than 5% IIRC). And the threat to ethnic Russians in Ukraine is pure bullshit Russian propaganda. There is not even clear way to tell who is Ukrainian speaking Russian (significant amounts of these live even in Kiev), and who is "persecuted Russian". And telling by the fact that Russian minority in Estonia, Latvia etc complain about persecution too (and EU laws regarding minorities are very strict about such things). I'd take such complains with big grain of salt. In conclusion - it was invasion and annexion of democratic state by authoritarian neighbor. The excuses are poor. That's why most of civilized world put sanctions on Russia.

happyscrappy 12y ago

Europe is too important to US power to be trusted with their own defense.

rimantas 12y ago

Europe needs the bully who feels free to do whatever comes to mind (like grabbing territory of the another country) even less.

cpursley 12y ago
You mean a territory that belonged to them only a few decades before? This idea that Russia wants to take back its former USSR territories is a fantasy.
gear54rus 12y ago
> Europe needs the bully who feels free to do whatever comes to mind I can see how NATO came to be then...

briandear 12y ago

The U.S. invaded The Crimea? Weird. Chechnya, Degestan? The U.S. seeded war in the Balkans? I remember all those U.S. supplied snipers in Savajevo killing civilians in Sniper Alley.. How about all of those American made AK-47s being used across Africa? I'm not sure how discouraging Russian and Islamic expansionism is somehow 'seeding war.' I don't recall Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait being 'seeded' by the U.S. During the Korean War, it was the Chinese supported North that attacked the South. How about Tibet? Or pretty much every conflict in Africa? This "America as invader" meme has no basis in reality or fact. The U.S. just doesn't sit around throwing darts on maps to pick countries to invade. We could suggest that countries like France in Africa and Indochina, the British with Northern Ireland and the Faulklands, the Germans (twice) in Europe, the Italians in Ethiopia and Libya, the Egyptians in the Six Day war and the Yom Kippir War.. The U.S. has been the belligerents in very few conflicts. We could talk about the Cubans in Grenada, the Soviets in Afghanistan.. The U.S. isn't perfect, but they definitely don't spend their time invading their neighbors because of some ethnic claim or another. The U.S. is involved in many places but there's a big difference between getting involved defensively as opposed to offensive, territorial-grabbing objectives such as seen in the Ukraine and the Caucasus. By the way, I am not passing judgement on any country; it's just important to maintain perspective based on facts and not some knee-jerk assumption. Ask Poland and the Baltics if they want the U.S. around. Huge majorities would say yes. Woukd you rather have the US sit in the sidelines while Russia marches unchecked to the German border?

warkid 12y ago
Wow, please, easy mister Obama, nobody's going to take you Peace Prize back!
shit_parade 12y ago
It's no longer 1930 and the US no longer has any claim to moral superiority. The in the last decade US policy has killed hundreds of thousands. I suggest you update your knowledge of history.

ajuc 12y ago

EU won't lose Russia as energy source. Russia would do it already if it could, but half of its budget comes from gas and oil sales (huge majority - to EU). And EU as a whole gets most of energy from outside Russia. It would hurt Russia a lot more than EU. And nuclear war is right off. On the other hand behaving like it's 1939 in modern Europe must be punished, or we will get more wars eventually, so Russia brought its own demise on itself, and it drags parts of Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia and others with it.

trhway 12y ago
>On the other hand behaving like it's 1939 in modern Europe must be punished, and that exactly what Russia did when Western Ukraine nationalist forces grabbed the power in Kiev through the military coup and threatened to do to ethnic Russians what the same nationalist forces did to ethnic Poles in Western Ukraine during WWII http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army#Ethnic_cleansing_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Galicia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army#Ethnic... . Their WWII leader - Bandera - is openly revered as national hero by the current powers in Kiev.
- ajuc 12y ago
  I happen to be from eastern Poland. I know people that lost family members to Russians in Katyn, to Ukrainians in Wolyn, and to Germans in whole Poland. That is history. I see no connection between W2 and Majdan. But I see connections between 1938 and Crimea. BTW Bandera had nothing on Stalin when it comes to murdering civilians, and there are 1000s monuments of Stalin in Russia, and your president called the fall of USSR the greatest tragedy of XXth century... Anyway - this doesn't matter. You lie regarding the nationalist forces (look up the percentage won by right wing parties in elections after Majdan - less than 5% IIRC). And the threat to ethnic Russians in Ukraine is pure bullshit Russian propaganda. There is not even clear way to tell who is Ukrainian speaking Russian (significant amounts of these live even in Kiev), and who is "persecuted Russian". And telling by the fact that Russian minority in Estonia, Latvia etc complain about persecution too (and EU laws regarding minorities are very strict about such things). I'd take such complains with big grain of salt. In conclusion - it was invasion and annexion of democratic state by authoritarian neighbor. The excuses are poor. That's why most of civilized world put sanctions on Russia.