7 ms·

as someone who lived through/participated in phase one of the "ticket disruption" to include secondary markets, i'm skeptical this is relevant and really i thin

by rdxm 12y ago

as someone who lived through/participated in phase one of the "ticket disruption" to include secondary markets, i'm skeptical this is relevant and really i think the vc dudes just flushed a bunch of money down the toilet. TM owns this market and frankly, the issue has nothing to do with tech, and everything to do with the way professional sports and concert marketing works from a biz perspective. then there's the whole regulatory issue. wish them good luck, but this is one of those domains that just sucks...

sgloutnikov 12y ago
They are not going against TM in the ticket market though. Putting the entire ticket market in one place is really nice from a ticket buyers perspective. How much TM and the whole ticket market sucks though, is another story.
- thorawayd 12y ago
  But they are. TM/Livenation don't just do concert tickets. They do all types of events, festivals, etc. I've seen tickets for golf events, dinner events, etc on livenation. Not only this, but TM/LN actually own a ton of venues. They seem to grow in size monthly. Here is the latest: http://blog.livenationentertainment.com/blog/Blog-Details/2015/Live-Nation-Acquires-Festival-And-Concert-Promoter-Behind-Summerburst-Festival03052015/default.aspx http://blog.livenationentertainment.com/blog/Blog-Details/20... There really is a monopoly on the market. "SeatGeek helps people find and buy tickets to sporting events, concerts, Broadway shows, nightclubs and a range of other live entertainment through its mobile app or website." This is targeting TM/LN market for sure. They don't have the connections that TM/LN have that allow them to gobble up a venue/festival monthly. http://www.livenationentertainment.com/ http://www.livenationentertainment.com/ Those are some hard stats to follow. Despite all of this, I'd love to see SeatGeek succeed. Hopefully some of this funding will help them.
anon808 12y ago
seatgeek has an amazing ui, maybe the best ui for finding tickets. That alone is very valuable. The problem is that with this round total raised is $100M. VC's expect to double or triple their money, as par. That sets a simplified expected exit valuation of $300M for this to be a success. Ticketmaster was last sold for $400MM in 2009. The bar for success is now extremely high. Anything below the high expectations generally means that this fantastic product will be considered a failure and most likely sold for scrap. What a horrible situation, why create these artificial expectations?
- untog 12y ago
  You didn't really counter any of the OPs points, though. A great UI is cool, but not if you don't have any tickets to sell because Ticketmaster already owns the entire market.
  - hayksaakian 12y ago
    is the UI good enough that people pay a markup on TM for the sake of the buying experience?
- mbesto 12y ago
  > Ticketmaster was last sold for $400MM in 2009 It was not sold. It merged with LYV to be valued at 50% of a $2.5bil company. It's now a $5bil company.
  - anon808 12y ago
    (Reuters) - The world's largest concert promoter, Live Nation Inc, plans to buy Ticketmaster Entertainment Inc for about $400 million in stock, aiming to create a company with dominant holdings in concert promotion and ticket sales. http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/02/10/us-ticketmaster-livenation-idUSTRE5194DL20090210 http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/02/10/us-ticketmaster-li... 2.5b enterprise value inlcuding debt. not 2.5b equity.
wdr1 12y ago
Former TM engineering manager here... > TM owns this market and frankly, the issue has nothing to do with tech, and everything to do with the way professional sports and concert marketing works from a biz perspective. Props to you for realizing the complexity of the business side. Most folks don't realize how complicated the world of ticketing is. I do think you underestimate the value of technology. Ticketmaster effectively figured how to solve some really hard problems, similar to how we solve inside Google today. The difference is TM did it with VAX assembler and for very focused use cases.
- zkhalique 12y ago
  What are some of the main challenges in the world of ticketing, regulatory & business wise? I wonder what would make it so hard to just strike a deal with a venue.
  - wallawe 12y ago
    TM took over back in the late 80's as the underdog because they made the great business decision to give venues a cut of the pie as opposed to charging venues for their services - which is what their competitors did at the time. They quickly took demolished the competition and began setting up long term contracts, usually between 3 and 10 years with each venue. Then, in 2010 they merged with LiveNation who owns a vast majority of some of the nations largest, most popular venues. Major artists' managers and promoters all have close ties to TM/LiveNation as well, because it's where the money is. So when Taylor Swift goes on tour, these folks make sure they hit a TM venue at each stop along the way. That's just the tip of the iceberg, but you get the gist.
    - gsnedders 12y ago
      So how does TM make money? Where is the cut for venues taken from? All from the booking fee?
walshemj 12y ago
Yeh that was my thought a few years ago I worked for Odeon sorting out some of the problems involved in selling cinema tickets online. One particular supplier seemed to have a lock on that industry and was milking it for all its worth. Odeon wasn't helped by using packet switched radio links that blocked - that's right only 1 person at a time could make a booking at an individual cinema (well the big one in lecister square had 2 links)

by rdxm 12y ago

sgloutnikov 12y ago

They are not going against TM in the ticket market though. Putting the entire ticket market in one place is really nice from a ticket buyers perspective. How much TM and the whole ticket market sucks though, is another story.

thorawayd 12y ago
But they are. TM/Livenation don't just do concert tickets. They do all types of events, festivals, etc. I've seen tickets for golf events, dinner events, etc on livenation. Not only this, but TM/LN actually own a ton of venues. They seem to grow in size monthly. Here is the latest: http://blog.livenationentertainment.com/blog/Blog-Details/2015/Live-Nation-Acquires-Festival-And-Concert-Promoter-Behind-Summerburst-Festival03052015/default.aspx http://blog.livenationentertainment.com/blog/Blog-Details/20... There really is a monopoly on the market. "SeatGeek helps people find and buy tickets to sporting events, concerts, Broadway shows, nightclubs and a range of other live entertainment through its mobile app or website." This is targeting TM/LN market for sure. They don't have the connections that TM/LN have that allow them to gobble up a venue/festival monthly. http://www.livenationentertainment.com/ http://www.livenationentertainment.com/ Those are some hard stats to follow. Despite all of this, I'd love to see SeatGeek succeed. Hopefully some of this funding will help them.

anon808 12y ago

seatgeek has an amazing ui, maybe the best ui for finding tickets. That alone is very valuable. The problem is that with this round total raised is $100M. VC's expect to double or triple their money, as par. That sets a simplified expected exit valuation of $300M for this to be a success. Ticketmaster was last sold for $400MM in 2009. The bar for success is now extremely high. Anything below the high expectations generally means that this fantastic product will be considered a failure and most likely sold for scrap. What a horrible situation, why create these artificial expectations?

untog 12y ago
You didn't really counter any of the OPs points, though. A great UI is cool, but not if you don't have any tickets to sell because Ticketmaster already owns the entire market.
- hayksaakian 12y ago
  is the UI good enough that people pay a markup on TM for the sake of the buying experience?
mbesto 12y ago
> Ticketmaster was last sold for $400MM in 2009 It was not sold. It merged with LYV to be valued at 50% of a $2.5bil company. It's now a $5bil company.
- anon808 12y ago
  (Reuters) - The world's largest concert promoter, Live Nation Inc, plans to buy Ticketmaster Entertainment Inc for about $400 million in stock, aiming to create a company with dominant holdings in concert promotion and ticket sales. http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/02/10/us-ticketmaster-livenation-idUSTRE5194DL20090210 http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/02/10/us-ticketmaster-li... 2.5b enterprise value inlcuding debt. not 2.5b equity.

wdr1 12y ago

Former TM engineering manager here... > TM owns this market and frankly, the issue has nothing to do with tech, and everything to do with the way professional sports and concert marketing works from a biz perspective. Props to you for realizing the complexity of the business side. Most folks don't realize how complicated the world of ticketing is. I do think you underestimate the value of technology. Ticketmaster effectively figured how to solve some really hard problems, similar to how we solve inside Google today. The difference is TM did it with VAX assembler and for very focused use cases.

zkhalique 12y ago
What are some of the main challenges in the world of ticketing, regulatory & business wise? I wonder what would make it so hard to just strike a deal with a venue.
- wallawe 12y ago
  TM took over back in the late 80's as the underdog because they made the great business decision to give venues a cut of the pie as opposed to charging venues for their services - which is what their competitors did at the time. They quickly took demolished the competition and began setting up long term contracts, usually between 3 and 10 years with each venue. Then, in 2010 they merged with LiveNation who owns a vast majority of some of the nations largest, most popular venues. Major artists' managers and promoters all have close ties to TM/LiveNation as well, because it's where the money is. So when Taylor Swift goes on tour, these folks make sure they hit a TM venue at each stop along the way. That's just the tip of the iceberg, but you get the gist.
  - gsnedders 12y ago
    So how does TM make money? Where is the cut for venues taken from? All from the booking fee?

walshemj 12y ago

Yeh that was my thought a few years ago I worked for Odeon sorting out some of the problems involved in selling cinema tickets online. One particular supplier seemed to have a lock on that industry and was milking it for all its worth. Odeon wasn't helped by using packet switched radio links that blocked - that's right only 1 person at a time could make a booking at an individual cinema (well the big one in lecister square had 2 links)