6 ms·

Sbase – Suckless unix tools

105 points by Syrup-tan 12y ago

halosghost 12y ago
Suckless gets a bad rep (probably because of their openness about their opinions of the projects of which they create alternatives); but, honestly, they have made some of my absolute favorite utilities. dwm, dmenu and st serve as the foundation for my whole workflow. I'd love to see a whole suckless OS someday. I know it's been around for some time, but it seems like this might be the first step towards that.
- cylinder714 12y ago
  I'd love to see a whole suckless OS someday. That might be Plan 9--or Project Oberon. ;-) I'm really looking forward to kOS: http://www.kparc.com/o.htm http://www.kparc.com/o.htm
  - halosghost 12y ago
    There are so many things about Plan9 that I deeply love. I need to install 9front and play with it sometime :)
  - srpeck 12y ago
    Same on kOS. In case you had not seen them, early kOS screenshots: http://www.reddit.com/r/apljk/comments/1vcioz/arthur_whitneys_kparc_project_bare_metal_to/ http://www.reddit.com/r/apljk/comments/1vcioz/arthur_whitney... Featured live in geocar's presentation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTrOg19gzP4&list=PLmRrx948XMnEUlzKOCYn3AzT8OAInP_5M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTrOg19gzP4&list=PLmRrx948XM... Also: - "Arthur wrote an SQL in 20 lines of K, and a dynamic window manager in around 60 of C...kOS's kernel is under 60 lines of C as well (including annotations; paging, filesystem, syscalls, etc)." (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9002302 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9002302) - "k includes language, files, procs, ipc, webserver, dbms, ..z includes graphics...edit.k is 1KB code + k/ztk(9KB)." (http://kparc.com/o.htm http://kparc.com/o.htm) - "kOS doesn't use the Linux kernel code. It supports a few of the same syscalls: clone, execve(!), epoll_create, epoll_ctl, epoll_wait, dup2, stat, rename, unlink, getcwd, chdir, fstat, getdents, open, close, read, write, ftruncate, mmap2, munmap, ioctl, gettimeofday, socket, bind, connect, listen, acccept, socketpair, setsockopt...execve just runs another k interpreter (regardless of what you tell it to do) though, so it can just be used to run more k programs." (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8744769 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8744769)
- vezzy-fnord 12y ago
  I'd love to see a whole suckless OS someday. Morpheus Linux? http://morpheus.2f30.org/ http://morpheus.2f30.org/
  - halosghost 12y ago
    Oh… Oh my… +1 for you!
- MattJ100 12y ago
  > Suckless gets a bad rep (probably because of their openness about their opinions of the projects of which they create alternatives) I didn't know that, but it doesn't surprise me. However I also love the software the project produces. Especially when they release new versions of tools where whole features have been removed to fix bugs. Simplify everything!
- DataCreep 12y ago
  In a world of participation trophies, pointing out flaws is frowned upon.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
faragon 12y ago
It looks well written.
xsb 12y ago
Also, check ubase http://git.2f30.org/ubase/about/ http://git.2f30.org/ubase/about/
Scarbutt 12y ago
no vi?
- acchan 12y ago
  It's outside the scope of sbase, but there's work on a vi-like editor too: http://www.brain-dump.org/blog/entry/144/vis_a_highly_efficient_vim_like_text_editor http://www.brain-dump.org/blog/entry/144/vis_a_highly_effici...
- aoloe 12y ago
  vis! http://lists.suckless.org/dev/1409/23497.html http://lists.suckless.org/dev/1409/23497.html There might be more characters in the announcement than in the repository,though.
- bandrami 12y ago
  The suckless editor is called sandy[0]. [0] http://tools.suckless.org/sandy http://tools.suckless.org/sandy
  - smorrow 12y ago
    I wonder why they didn't just make an ncurses frontend to sam. You'd get regex search, selection-based commands and unlimited undo for free...
prewett 12y ago
Frankly this about page sucks. I want to like this project, but there is only one sentence on what it's supposed to replace and why. Apparently this is supposed to be better than busybox somehow. No information on why busybox sucks, no information on how sbase sucks less. Is sbase better because it is smaller, faster, better architected, more POSIX compliant, more useful features, what? What are the tradeoffs for this? If you're going to make the claim that you suck less, at least say WHY you suck less. Even Google doesn't seem to know what sucks less about suckless. The best I could come up with was "sbase vs busybox" which leads me to [1], where this exact question was asked, to which the response by the project creator was "The busybox code sucks." Not helpful at all, which was pointed out one post later, to which another project member said "Try to read it [the code?] and understand it." Great. Like I have time to read the code of every project before I decide to use it. [1] https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=176854 https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=176854
- onli 12y ago
  I kind of like that they manage to present their project there without bashing other projects, apart from the whole name and approach of course. It's a bit difficult to confirm, but given the name and approach this project is probably a part of the suckless community (however big that is and who might be in it), and on their page there is http://suckless.org/philosophy http://suckless.org/philosophy and some other pages, that would explain what to expect from sbase. Granted, that is not very concrete.
  - TheCondor 12y ago
    Maybe you didn't see the "sucks" page they also link to cat-v's "considered harmful" page which I have to assume is maintained by people that don't professionally use computers.
    - juliangoldsmith 12y ago
      What precisely is wrong with it? Speaking as someone who professionally uses computers, I agree with quite a bit of it.
faragon 12y ago
Wait. Is that really related to suckless.org? I've just checked that suckless.org Unix tools are called "9base", not "Sbase", and is different code. Could someone explain that? http://git.suckless.org/9base/tree/cal/cal.c http://git.suckless.org/9base/tree/cal/cal.c http://git.2f30.org/sbase/tree/cal.c http://git.2f30.org/sbase/tree/cal.c http://tools.suckless.org/ http://tools.suckless.org/
- gandarojin 12y ago
  The sbase page on suckless.org is here: http://core.suckless.org/sbase http://core.suckless.org/sbase > 9base is a port of various original Plan 9 tools for Unix, based on plan9port. While sbase is supposed to be POSIX-compliant.
  - euid 12y ago
    Since that page links to [1]: http://git.suckless.org/sbase/ http://git.suckless.org/sbase/ instead of [2]: http://git.2f30.org/sbase/ http://git.2f30.org/sbase/ I'm guessing [2] is a mirror, and [1] is the original Git repository. They appear to have the same content.
    - faragon 12y ago
      Thank you.
- daveloyall 12y ago
  On IRC, I heard that suckless.org and 2f30 are indeed related.
davexunit 12y ago
I can't stand the attitude of the suckless project. Apparently all software is bloated unless in it is written in C, statically linked, and configured only by modifying a config.h file and rebuilding. Thanks, but I'll just keep on using the GNU coreutils, Emacs, etc.

105 points by Syrup-tan 12y ago

Suckless gets a bad rep (probably because of their openness about their opinions of the projects of which they create alternatives); but, honestly, they have made some of my absolute favorite utilities. dwm, dmenu and st serve as the foundation for my whole workflow. I'd love to see a whole suckless OS someday. I know it's been around for some time, but it seems like this might be the first step towards that.

cylinder714 12y ago
I'd love to see a whole suckless OS someday. That might be Plan 9--or Project Oberon. ;-) I'm really looking forward to kOS: http://www.kparc.com/o.htm http://www.kparc.com/o.htm
- halosghost 12y ago
  There are so many things about Plan9 that I deeply love. I need to install 9front and play with it sometime :)
- srpeck 12y ago
  Same on kOS. In case you had not seen them, early kOS screenshots: http://www.reddit.com/r/apljk/comments/1vcioz/arthur_whitneys_kparc_project_bare_metal_to/ http://www.reddit.com/r/apljk/comments/1vcioz/arthur_whitney... Featured live in geocar's presentation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTrOg19gzP4&list=PLmRrx948XMnEUlzKOCYn3AzT8OAInP_5M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTrOg19gzP4&list=PLmRrx948XM... Also: - "Arthur wrote an SQL in 20 lines of K, and a dynamic window manager in around 60 of C...kOS's kernel is under 60 lines of C as well (including annotations; paging, filesystem, syscalls, etc)." (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9002302 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9002302) - "k includes language, files, procs, ipc, webserver, dbms, ..z includes graphics...edit.k is 1KB code + k/ztk(9KB)." (http://kparc.com/o.htm http://kparc.com/o.htm) - "kOS doesn't use the Linux kernel code. It supports a few of the same syscalls: clone, execve(!), epoll_create, epoll_ctl, epoll_wait, dup2, stat, rename, unlink, getcwd, chdir, fstat, getdents, open, close, read, write, ftruncate, mmap2, munmap, ioctl, gettimeofday, socket, bind, connect, listen, acccept, socketpair, setsockopt...execve just runs another k interpreter (regardless of what you tell it to do) though, so it can just be used to run more k programs." (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8744769 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8744769)
vezzy-fnord 12y ago
I'd love to see a whole suckless OS someday. Morpheus Linux? http://morpheus.2f30.org/ http://morpheus.2f30.org/
- halosghost 12y ago
  Oh… Oh my… +1 for you!
MattJ100 12y ago
> Suckless gets a bad rep (probably because of their openness about their opinions of the projects of which they create alternatives) I didn't know that, but it doesn't surprise me. However I also love the software the project produces. Especially when they release new versions of tools where whole features have been removed to fix bugs. Simplify everything!
DataCreep 12y ago
In a world of participation trophies, pointing out flaws is frowned upon.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

faragon 12y ago

It looks well written.

xsb 12y ago

Also, check ubase http://git.2f30.org/ubase/about/ http://git.2f30.org/ubase/about/

Scarbutt 12y ago

no vi?

acchan 12y ago
It's outside the scope of sbase, but there's work on a vi-like editor too: http://www.brain-dump.org/blog/entry/144/vis_a_highly_efficient_vim_like_text_editor http://www.brain-dump.org/blog/entry/144/vis_a_highly_effici...
aoloe 12y ago
vis! http://lists.suckless.org/dev/1409/23497.html http://lists.suckless.org/dev/1409/23497.html There might be more characters in the announcement than in the repository,though.
bandrami 12y ago
The suckless editor is called sandy[0]. [0] http://tools.suckless.org/sandy http://tools.suckless.org/sandy
- smorrow 12y ago
  I wonder why they didn't just make an ncurses frontend to sam. You'd get regex search, selection-based commands and unlimited undo for free...

prewett 12y ago

Frankly this about page sucks. I want to like this project, but there is only one sentence on what it's supposed to replace and why. Apparently this is supposed to be better than busybox somehow. No information on why busybox sucks, no information on how sbase sucks less. Is sbase better because it is smaller, faster, better architected, more POSIX compliant, more useful features, what? What are the tradeoffs for this? If you're going to make the claim that you suck less, at least say WHY you suck less. Even Google doesn't seem to know what sucks less about suckless. The best I could come up with was "sbase vs busybox" which leads me to [1], where this exact question was asked, to which the response by the project creator was "The busybox code sucks." Not helpful at all, which was pointed out one post later, to which another project member said "Try to read it [the code?] and understand it." Great. Like I have time to read the code of every project before I decide to use it. [1] https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=176854 https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=176854

onli 12y ago
I kind of like that they manage to present their project there without bashing other projects, apart from the whole name and approach of course. It's a bit difficult to confirm, but given the name and approach this project is probably a part of the suckless community (however big that is and who might be in it), and on their page there is http://suckless.org/philosophy http://suckless.org/philosophy and some other pages, that would explain what to expect from sbase. Granted, that is not very concrete.
- TheCondor 12y ago
  Maybe you didn't see the "sucks" page they also link to cat-v's "considered harmful" page which I have to assume is maintained by people that don't professionally use computers.
  - juliangoldsmith 12y ago
    What precisely is wrong with it? Speaking as someone who professionally uses computers, I agree with quite a bit of it.

faragon 12y ago

Wait. Is that really related to suckless.org? I've just checked that suckless.org Unix tools are called "9base", not "Sbase", and is different code. Could someone explain that? http://git.suckless.org/9base/tree/cal/cal.c http://git.suckless.org/9base/tree/cal/cal.c http://git.2f30.org/sbase/tree/cal.c http://git.2f30.org/sbase/tree/cal.c http://tools.suckless.org/ http://tools.suckless.org/

gandarojin 12y ago
The sbase page on suckless.org is here: http://core.suckless.org/sbase http://core.suckless.org/sbase > 9base is a port of various original Plan 9 tools for Unix, based on plan9port. While sbase is supposed to be POSIX-compliant.
- euid 12y ago
  Since that page links to [1]: http://git.suckless.org/sbase/ http://git.suckless.org/sbase/ instead of [2]: http://git.2f30.org/sbase/ http://git.2f30.org/sbase/ I'm guessing [2] is a mirror, and [1] is the original Git repository. They appear to have the same content.
  - faragon 12y ago
    Thank you.
daveloyall 12y ago
On IRC, I heard that suckless.org and 2f30 are indeed related.

davexunit 12y ago

I can't stand the attitude of the suckless project. Apparently all software is bloated unless in it is written in C, statically linked, and configured only by modifying a config.h file and rebuilding. Thanks, but I'll just keep on using the GNU coreutils, Emacs, etc.