5 ms·

What chilling effect? Github is up and running after all. Both targeted projects are online: https://github.com/greatfire https://github.com/cn-nytimes L

by moe 12y ago

What chilling effect? Github is up and running after all. Both targeted projects are online: https://github.com/greatfire https://github.com/cn-nytimes Looks like if you want to mess with China then all you have to do is put your material on Github. You think that is the lesson China wanted to teach the world?

wnevets 12y ago
You dont see a chilling effect when the choice is either host your content on github or be blasted off the internet? Lets not forget this wasnt an easy thing for github to handle. Their service still isnt running at 100% normal. Not to mention the cost burden they're currently dealing with.
- moe 12y ago
  You dont see a chilling effect when the choice is either host your content on github or be blasted off the internet? Was there any doubt about China's ability to blast sites much bigger than Github off the internet to begin with? They're the second largest economy in the world. They don't need to play painfully obvious MITM tricks on their own infrastructure to carry out an attack - which then doesn't even have enough oomph to make a dent on a large but probably not particularly hardened site. Lets not forget this wasnt an easy thing for github to handle. That doesn't change the message that this random, half-assed neck-slap sends. If this was really done by Chinese authorities and if I was a Chinese dissident then I'd be thrilled rather than chilled. Who knew keeping my stuff online could be as easy as uploading it to Github!
  - pekk 12y ago
    Nobody ever said China couldn't run DDOS tools. This is a deterrent signal sent to businesses outside of China. It publicly demonstrates that China has the will to punish businesses for serving certain kinds of content. Although it's obvious who benefits, it's just deniable enough that they have avoided international censure; today nobody can reasonably think "China wouldn't do that because they fear reprisals," since they just did it; which helps China maintain a credible threat to businesses. They aren't trying to destroy GitHub, just to exert control over businesses which are out of their regulatory reach.
    - moe 12y ago
      It publicly demonstrates that China has the will to punish businesses for serving certain kinds of content. Do you really think anyone concerned with these things (activists, VPN providers, companies doing business with China) needed a half-assed, unsuccessful Github attack as a "deterrent signal"?
mikeash 12y ago
Now let's say you want to provide some sort of service that the Chinese government would frown upon. Would this not make you think twice about doing that? A lot of people would take an attack as a point of pride and be deliberately defiant, but a lot of other people would just see it as a big risk to be avoided.
pekk 12y ago
GitHub has the protection of the US Government, which has a vested interest in fighting the precedent that Chinese attackers are setting here. Interestingly, this also gives China more bargaining power in its negotiations with the US about "cyber" issues
- moe 12y ago
  GitHub has the protection of the US Government, which has a vested interest in fighting the precedent that Chinese attackers are setting here. Why would the US Government be concerned about "chinese attackers" that apparently can't even take out a civilian top100 website? Interestingly, this also gives China more bargaining power in its negotiations with the US about "cyber" issues You mean they will offer to stop "pretend attacking" american companies, and the US will then make concessions out of gratitude?

by moe 12y ago

wnevets 12y ago

You dont see a chilling effect when the choice is either host your content on github or be blasted off the internet? Lets not forget this wasnt an easy thing for github to handle. Their service still isnt running at 100% normal. Not to mention the cost burden they're currently dealing with.

moe 12y ago
You dont see a chilling effect when the choice is either host your content on github or be blasted off the internet? Was there any doubt about China's ability to blast sites much bigger than Github off the internet to begin with? They're the second largest economy in the world. They don't need to play painfully obvious MITM tricks on their own infrastructure to carry out an attack - which then doesn't even have enough oomph to make a dent on a large but probably not particularly hardened site. Lets not forget this wasnt an easy thing for github to handle. That doesn't change the message that this random, half-assed neck-slap sends. If this was really done by Chinese authorities and if I was a Chinese dissident then I'd be thrilled rather than chilled. Who knew keeping my stuff online could be as easy as uploading it to Github!
- pekk 12y ago
  Nobody ever said China couldn't run DDOS tools. This is a deterrent signal sent to businesses outside of China. It publicly demonstrates that China has the will to punish businesses for serving certain kinds of content. Although it's obvious who benefits, it's just deniable enough that they have avoided international censure; today nobody can reasonably think "China wouldn't do that because they fear reprisals," since they just did it; which helps China maintain a credible threat to businesses. They aren't trying to destroy GitHub, just to exert control over businesses which are out of their regulatory reach.
  - moe 12y ago
    It publicly demonstrates that China has the will to punish businesses for serving certain kinds of content. Do you really think anyone concerned with these things (activists, VPN providers, companies doing business with China) needed a half-assed, unsuccessful Github attack as a "deterrent signal"?

mikeash 12y ago

Now let's say you want to provide some sort of service that the Chinese government would frown upon. Would this not make you think twice about doing that? A lot of people would take an attack as a point of pride and be deliberately defiant, but a lot of other people would just see it as a big risk to be avoided.

pekk 12y ago

GitHub has the protection of the US Government, which has a vested interest in fighting the precedent that Chinese attackers are setting here. Interestingly, this also gives China more bargaining power in its negotiations with the US about "cyber" issues

moe 12y ago
GitHub has the protection of the US Government, which has a vested interest in fighting the precedent that Chinese attackers are setting here. Why would the US Government be concerned about "chinese attackers" that apparently can't even take out a civilian top100 website? Interestingly, this also gives China more bargaining power in its negotiations with the US about "cyber" issues You mean they will offer to stop "pretend attacking" american companies, and the US will then make concessions out of gratitude?