4 ms·

The question is how could that expensive US education could possibly make sense for americans? In Europe,in most countries, education is virtually free, just l

by aikah 12y ago

The question is how could that expensive US education could possibly make sense for americans? In Europe,in most countries, education is virtually free, just look at the cost of law school or med school in France or Belgium for instance. It's what $500 dollars a year at most? Of course there are plenty of private schools in Europe, but even these are usually half the cost of American ones. I graduated in computer science, in France. 4 years of college education cost me, what, 1000$ at most? Now sure, I pay a LOT of taxes. But I know at least some of it goes into education and allow other student like I was to afford a good education. Having stayed in US for a while, while salaries seemed higher I don't think the cost of life is cheaper than in western Europe.

doyoulikeworms 12y ago
Public university used to be cheap. In the 1960's, tuition & fees at a UC school was less than $2000 (2015 dollars) per year. In the 1950's, it was less than $750 per year.[1][2] Today, tuition & fees at a UC will cost you $15,000 per year. In order to completely pay for tuition and fees, the state of California would have to increase revenue $3 billion per year. Or increase tax revenues by just 3%.[1][3] I, as a citizen, feel like our government's priorities have been absolutely abysmal since the 1980's. To me, this level of insanity transcends political ideology. It's just plain dumb not to fix this. > Now sure, I pay a LOT of taxes. But I know at least some of it goes into education and allow other student like I was to afford a good education. Having stayed in US for a while, while salaries seemed higher I don't think the cost of life is cheaper than in western Europe. Cost of living is lower in the US (as a whole) than Western European countries, and median household income adjusted for purchasing power parity (PPP) is quite a bit higher in the US.[4][5] That doesn't make any of this sensible, though. Sure, I'd take lower taxes if Californian kids had to pay just a couple thousand more to college than French kids. But $14k more? Insanity. Raise my taxes please. 1. http://www.dailycal.org/2014/12/22/history-uc-tuition-since-1868/ http://www.dailycal.org/2014/12/22/history-uc-tuition-since-... 2. http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=84&year1=1956&year2=2015 http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=84&year1=1956&y... 3. http://www.sco.ca.gov/state_finances_101_state_taxes.html http://www.sco.ca.gov/state_finances_101_state_taxes.html 4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income 5. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity#OECD_comparative_price_levels http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity#OECD_co...
- purplelobster 12y ago
  The thing is, PPP is only for things you have to actually buy. Where I live, salaries and PPP is lower than in the US where I lived before. But it's not that simple. Does PPP take into account that I got my 5 year education for free? Actually I received roughly $400/month to go to university. Which also means I don't need a college fund for my kids. Does it reflect that health care is free and I don't have to even think about it anymore? Does it reflect that I now have an actual pension, with 25% on top of my regular pay is paid into my future pension? Does it reflect that I now have 6 weeks vacation instead of 3? Does it reflect that if I have a child, I (as a father) can stay home with the baby for a year if I'd like? Does it reflect that daycare is heavily subsidised to the point I don't have to care about that either? Does it reflect that I don't have "at will" employment anymore, and can't just be let go in a day? Etc etc etc. My point is, it's very difficult to compare the economic realities in different countries. There are whole categories of expenses that just do not exist in many western European countries. That said, I'm sure if you add everything up, Silicon Valley is the place to be for single, healthy, smart engineers. But that's a pretty narrow set of the population.
  - doyoulikeworms 12y ago
    I completely agree. Any time you try to turn complex social systems into a simple number, things are necessarily lost in translation. The numbers represent simply what they represent, and nothing more.
  - ownagefool 12y ago
    You'll actually find it's pretty complicated to measure earnings in Europe. In London you could happily be earning $200,000 - $300,000 with IT skills, avoid tax, keep 90% of that, and have the state benefits. Simply stated, because of the high levels of tax and rife avoidance, it's probably quite difficult to quantify earnings in London, for example.
    - DanBC 12y ago
      > In London you could happily be earning $200,000 - $300,000 with IT skills, avoid tax, keep 90% of that, and have the state benefits. How? Which particular state benefits are you talking about? (And it seems like you're talking about evasion - which is illegal, rather than avoidance which is a mix of normal tax planning (a contractor registering for VAT and claiming some of that back) and loophole-manipulation).

by aikah 12y ago

doyoulikeworms 12y ago

Public university used to be cheap. In the 1960's, tuition & fees at a UC school was less than $2000 (2015 dollars) per year. In the 1950's, it was less than $750 per year.[1][2] Today, tuition & fees at a UC will cost you $15,000 per year. In order to completely pay for tuition and fees, the state of California would have to increase revenue $3 billion per year. Or increase tax revenues by just 3%.[1][3] I, as a citizen, feel like our government's priorities have been absolutely abysmal since the 1980's. To me, this level of insanity transcends political ideology. It's just plain dumb not to fix this. > Now sure, I pay a LOT of taxes. But I know at least some of it goes into education and allow other student like I was to afford a good education. Having stayed in US for a while, while salaries seemed higher I don't think the cost of life is cheaper than in western Europe. Cost of living is lower in the US (as a whole) than Western European countries, and median household income adjusted for purchasing power parity (PPP) is quite a bit higher in the US.[4][5] That doesn't make any of this sensible, though. Sure, I'd take lower taxes if Californian kids had to pay just a couple thousand more to college than French kids. But $14k more? Insanity. Raise my taxes please. 1. http://www.dailycal.org/2014/12/22/history-uc-tuition-since-1868/ http://www.dailycal.org/2014/12/22/history-uc-tuition-since-... 2. http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=84&year1=1956&year2=2015 http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=84&year1=1956&y... 3. http://www.sco.ca.gov/state_finances_101_state_taxes.html http://www.sco.ca.gov/state_finances_101_state_taxes.html 4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income 5. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity#OECD_comparative_price_levels http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity#OECD_co...

purplelobster 12y ago
The thing is, PPP is only for things you have to actually buy. Where I live, salaries and PPP is lower than in the US where I lived before. But it's not that simple. Does PPP take into account that I got my 5 year education for free? Actually I received roughly $400/month to go to university. Which also means I don't need a college fund for my kids. Does it reflect that health care is free and I don't have to even think about it anymore? Does it reflect that I now have an actual pension, with 25% on top of my regular pay is paid into my future pension? Does it reflect that I now have 6 weeks vacation instead of 3? Does it reflect that if I have a child, I (as a father) can stay home with the baby for a year if I'd like? Does it reflect that daycare is heavily subsidised to the point I don't have to care about that either? Does it reflect that I don't have "at will" employment anymore, and can't just be let go in a day? Etc etc etc. My point is, it's very difficult to compare the economic realities in different countries. There are whole categories of expenses that just do not exist in many western European countries. That said, I'm sure if you add everything up, Silicon Valley is the place to be for single, healthy, smart engineers. But that's a pretty narrow set of the population.
- doyoulikeworms 12y ago
  I completely agree. Any time you try to turn complex social systems into a simple number, things are necessarily lost in translation. The numbers represent simply what they represent, and nothing more.
- ownagefool 12y ago
  You'll actually find it's pretty complicated to measure earnings in Europe. In London you could happily be earning $200,000 - $300,000 with IT skills, avoid tax, keep 90% of that, and have the state benefits. Simply stated, because of the high levels of tax and rife avoidance, it's probably quite difficult to quantify earnings in London, for example.
  - DanBC 12y ago
    > In London you could happily be earning $200,000 - $300,000 with IT skills, avoid tax, keep 90% of that, and have the state benefits. How? Which particular state benefits are you talking about? (And it seems like you're talking about evasion - which is illegal, rather than avoidance which is a mix of normal tax planning (a contractor registering for VAT and claiming some of that back) and loophole-manipulation).