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Someone should build a social and pedagogical programming environment for kids on the web. The main problem here is the frustrating fact that one stupid browser

Someone should build a social and pedagogical programming environment for kids on the web. The main problem here is the frustrating fact that one stupid browser doesn't support an HTML tag that's now 4 1/2 years old.

michael_dorfman 17y ago
There are some very nice programming environments for kids. MIT Scratch (http://scratch.mit.edu/ http://scratch.mit.edu/) immediately springs to mind, for example. Any particular reason it needs to be web-based?
- swannodette 17y ago
  Scratch is definitely a cool introduction to the world of programming. But I worry that in its attempt to make programming accessible sets up kids for a rude awakening. Most "real" programming isn't like that at all. Yet the kind of code I wrote in the 80s in Apple BASIC isn't so different "in kind" from a lot of the code I write professionally today. Sorry for posting so many comments: I'm a teacher so the issue of computers, programming, and education fascinates me to no end :)
  - vorador 17y ago
    How is scratch so different from other programming environments ?
    - swannodette 17y ago
      Typing. The physicality of an interaction is not to be understated. I've seen wizards with specialized interfaces (Flash, PhotoShop, Final Cut, etc) struggle miserably with text based input.
      - vorador 17y ago
        Yes, but programming is about patterns, and, in my opinion, patterns are more simple to spot visually than with text. It's maybe more important for a kid to learn that than learning about the "materiality" of programming.
- jacquesm 17y ago
  Yes, because every kid (at least in the 'developed' world) nowadays has web access but not every kid can install software on the machines they are allowed to use (for instance in school, the library or their parents' machine).
  - cakesy 17y ago
    And, they can very easily show it to there friends, if it is in javascript. My niece loves designing webpages that she shares with her mates. Of course, getting her to program rather than put up pictures of twilight is another issue.
    - netcan 17y ago
      True. I guess these are the same two reasons anything needs to be web-based: (1)Easy to get started. No hurdles. (2) Sharing

michael_dorfman 17y ago

There are some very nice programming environments for kids. MIT Scratch (http://scratch.mit.edu/ http://scratch.mit.edu/) immediately springs to mind, for example. Any particular reason it needs to be web-based?

swannodette 17y ago
Scratch is definitely a cool introduction to the world of programming. But I worry that in its attempt to make programming accessible sets up kids for a rude awakening. Most "real" programming isn't like that at all. Yet the kind of code I wrote in the 80s in Apple BASIC isn't so different "in kind" from a lot of the code I write professionally today. Sorry for posting so many comments: I'm a teacher so the issue of computers, programming, and education fascinates me to no end :)
- vorador 17y ago
  How is scratch so different from other programming environments ?
  - swannodette 17y ago
    Typing. The physicality of an interaction is not to be understated. I've seen wizards with specialized interfaces (Flash, PhotoShop, Final Cut, etc) struggle miserably with text based input.
    - vorador 17y ago
      Yes, but programming is about patterns, and, in my opinion, patterns are more simple to spot visually than with text. It's maybe more important for a kid to learn that than learning about the "materiality" of programming.
jacquesm 17y ago
Yes, because every kid (at least in the 'developed' world) nowadays has web access but not every kid can install software on the machines they are allowed to use (for instance in school, the library or their parents' machine).
- cakesy 17y ago
  And, they can very easily show it to there friends, if it is in javascript. My niece loves designing webpages that she shares with her mates. Of course, getting her to program rather than put up pictures of twilight is another issue.
  - netcan 17y ago
    True. I guess these are the same two reasons anything needs to be web-based: (1)Easy to get started. No hurdles. (2) Sharing