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Interesting to consider --- is there enough lithium in the world to support this stuff? http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2010/ph240/eason2/ http://large.stanf

Interesting to consider --- is there enough lithium in the world to support this stuff? http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2010/ph240/eason2/ http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2010/ph240/eason2/

anon4 12y ago
Can't lithium batteries be recycled?
- peterfirefly 12y ago
  Yes. http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/mythbusters-part-3-recycling-our-non-toxic-battery-packs http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/mythbusters-part-3-recycling... http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/teslas-closed-loop-battery-recycling-program http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/teslas-closed-loop-battery-r...
  - ridgeguy 12y ago
    Thanks for these. The second link notes that the lithium battery recycling is profitable. Do you know of any links to more detailed economics of lithium battery recycling? I'm trying to estimate the cost of Li batteries in a fully recycling system at equilibrium, and I'm not finding any detailed cost/revenue breakdowns. Thank you.
    - peterfirefly 12y ago
      No, sorry. I'd be interested as well.
ams6110 12y ago
Sounds like between using lithium in car batteries as well as for household and industrial energy storage, "peak lithium" might be a real possibility.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
ridgeguy 12y ago
USGS says there's this much available lithium: http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/lithium/mcs-2015-lithi.pdf http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/lithium/mcs... These guys http://www.erb.umich.edu/Research/InstituteReports/09-10/GlobalLithiumAvailability-PaulGruberPabloMedina.pdf http://www.erb.umich.edu/Research/InstituteReports/09-10/Glo... and these guys http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1364032114002457 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1364032114... think there's plenty of lithium, not a problem.
mstachowiak 12y ago
The amount of lithium available in known reserves that are profitable to extract at today's prices is very large. We won't be running into constraints anytime soon. And while lithium makes for a good battery anode now, it would be foolish to assume it's the preferred choice for energy storage 15 years down the road.
peterfirefly 12y ago
They don't actually use that much lithium -- and there is /plenty/ of lithium practically everywhere. Cobalt is much closer to being a problem -- and it is still very far from being one. --- Is Eric Eason a good authority on mineral reserves and resources? I don't think so: http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/08/03/is-there-enough-lithium-to-feed-teslas-gigafactory/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/08/03/is-there-... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/05/28/lithium/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/05/28/lithium/

Interesting to consider --- is there enough lithium in the world to support this stuff? http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2010/ph240/eason2/ http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2010/ph240/eason2/

anon4 12y ago

Can't lithium batteries be recycled?

peterfirefly 12y ago
Yes. http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/mythbusters-part-3-recycling-our-non-toxic-battery-packs http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/mythbusters-part-3-recycling... http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/teslas-closed-loop-battery-recycling-program http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/teslas-closed-loop-battery-r...
- ridgeguy 12y ago
  Thanks for these. The second link notes that the lithium battery recycling is profitable. Do you know of any links to more detailed economics of lithium battery recycling? I'm trying to estimate the cost of Li batteries in a fully recycling system at equilibrium, and I'm not finding any detailed cost/revenue breakdowns. Thank you.
  - peterfirefly 12y ago
    No, sorry. I'd be interested as well.

ams6110 12y ago

Sounds like between using lithium in car batteries as well as for household and industrial energy storage, "peak lithium" might be a real possibility.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

ridgeguy 12y ago

USGS says there's this much available lithium: http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/lithium/mcs-2015-lithi.pdf http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/lithium/mcs... These guys http://www.erb.umich.edu/Research/InstituteReports/09-10/GlobalLithiumAvailability-PaulGruberPabloMedina.pdf http://www.erb.umich.edu/Research/InstituteReports/09-10/Glo... and these guys http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1364032114002457 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1364032114... think there's plenty of lithium, not a problem.

mstachowiak 12y ago

The amount of lithium available in known reserves that are profitable to extract at today's prices is very large. We won't be running into constraints anytime soon. And while lithium makes for a good battery anode now, it would be foolish to assume it's the preferred choice for energy storage 15 years down the road.

peterfirefly 12y ago

They don't actually use that much lithium -- and there is /plenty/ of lithium practically everywhere. Cobalt is much closer to being a problem -- and it is still very far from being one. --- Is Eric Eason a good authority on mineral reserves and resources? I don't think so: http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/08/03/is-there-enough-lithium-to-feed-teslas-gigafactory/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/08/03/is-there-... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/05/28/lithium/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/05/28/lithium/