4 ms·

The first picture that pops into my head when I think of California is sprinklers on people's lawns. We don't really have them in Germany. I mean, of course we

The first picture that pops into my head when I think of California is sprinklers on people's lawns. We don't really have them in Germany. I mean, of course we do, but people are hesitant to put them up because the first thing that will happen is your neighbours standing at the fence judging you for being so goddamn wasteful (seriously). Now, I'm not a huge fan of judging people (that's a lie), but I can't help but notice that americans (seem to) completely lack this sense of responsibility/playing your part/restraining yourself for the greater good/whatever. Another thing we don't really have is air conditioning (might be a climate thing). It's insanely wasteful and chances are you'll be sweaty anyway. So we don't use them. Unfortunately I have a hard time finding numbers on how much water is actually wasted. I.e., with a somewhat reasonable definition of "wasted."

SSLy 12y ago
> Another thing we don't really have is air conditioning (might be a climate thing). This one is a climate thing.
- teamhappy 12y ago
  Certainly for California. But what about New York for example? Have a look: http://www.eia.gov/consumption/residential/reports/2009/air-conditioning.cfm http://www.eia.gov/consumption/residential/reports/2009/air-... // Can't find numbers for Germany, but I can tell you that I don't know anybody who has AC at home. (I'm not a hippie.) // You know how examples work, right? The data is pretty clear: More than 60% of households in the USA have AC.
  - usaphp 12y ago
    Summer in New York is unbearable, I am originally from Russia, I used to live in New York for many years, 28c degree in New York is nothing like 28c degree in Moscow or 28c degree in San Diego (where I live now). It's very relative, depends on a dryness of the air I guess.
  - ocb 12y ago
    New York's average high in July is higher than LA's. edit: and that's without even accounting for humidity
  - scythe 12y ago
    July average high in NYC is higher than LA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City#Climate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City#Climate
  - jacquesm 12y ago
    The humidity gets you. Germany isn't nearly as humid as New York in the summer.
    - syshax 12y ago
      Yeah, and one major function of HVAC is to draw humidity out of the air.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - realityking 12y ago
    Fellow German here. Summer in New York is significantly warmer than in Germany. Consider for starters that NYC is on roughly the same latitude as Madrid. Different point but Germans seem to always be up in arms about the American use of air conditioning, and if it's to warm for them they should move to milder climate. Weirdly enough I've never heard anything like it about Nordic countries and heating.
munificent 12y ago
> Another thing we don't really have is air conditioning (might be a climate thing). It's insanely wasteful and chances are you'll be sweaty anyway. The average high in Munich in July is 23 °C. In Los Angeles, it's 28.4 °C. In Death Valley, California, it's 47 °C. (That's average. The highest temperature ever recorded is 57 °C.) 23 °C is what most Americans set their air conditioners to. If it never got hotter than that, we wouldn't use them either. For example, where I live (Seattle, near the northern border of the US and on the ocean), air conditioners are uncommon.
- nordsieck 12y ago
  It's actually tragically common for older people in hot climates (e.g. Arizona) to eschew air conditioners and die.
- secabeen 12y ago
  Even in Los Angeles, if you're within 5 miles of the ocean and your house was built more than 15 years ago, you won't have AC either. AC is largely a feature of mini-mansions and houses in the more inland areas.
thrownaway2424 12y ago
The first thing that pops into my mind about Germany is lederhosen and beer. But it's surprisingly difficult to diagnose large-scale socio-ecological problems from the other side of the planet.
pjlegato 12y ago
> I can't help but notice that americans (seem to) completely lack this sense of responsibility/playing your part/restraining yourself for the greater good/whatever Of course there are exceptions, but in general Americans are much more oriented to the rights of the individual and much less to collectivism and the 'greater good' than Germans. We tend to view collectivism as an inherently oppressive and dictatorial mode of social organization, a cruel enslavement and subjugation of the individual, who is prohibited from doing anything but following the mandates of the collective handed down by some vast inhuman and opaque bureaucracy. This attitude is less prevalent in more leftist areas such as California and Massachusettes, but I think it's safe to say that it's fairly representative of the average American overall. I had the reverse experience in Germany: I was amazed at the degree to which many Germans obsess extensively over the minutiae of trivial decisions (such as how far to open the water tap while washing dishes) in terms of what (vanishingly inconsequential in most cases) effect it will speculatively have on the collective good. Moreover, this seems to be cast in terms of what other people will think of you. Americans care far less about what others will think of them. We tend more towards a philosophy that says if you are not (directly) harming someone else, it's nobody else's business what you do. Germans sort their recycling into 9 seperate bins by color and composition. They could easily put everything in 1 bin and make machines to sort it automatically, or hire someone to do it by hand, but instead it is set up so everyone has to do it themselves -- so your neighbors can see that you are or are not complying with the dictates of society. Another seperate factor is that natural resources in general are far more abundant in the US than Germany. Relative to the US, Germany is a tiny country with a huge population packed into a very small space. Meticulously conserving resources is imperative when you have a high population to resource ratio, but less important when you have a huge land area with a very low average population density and so vast amounts of resources available for each person. We are just recently starting to reach the limits of what the natural available resources can support in the US. The local limit in Germany was reached centuries ago, forcing more efficient use of what was available.
- emodendroket 12y ago
  I think the image of Massachusetts as a bastion of "leftist" or liberal thought and ideals comes mostly from people who have never lived here. For various historical reasons the state is dominated by Democrats but many of them are comparatively conservative.
blazingfrog2 12y ago
The average for June through September here in the State Capital, Sacramento, is just over 89 degrees Fahrenheit (or almost 32 degrees Celsius). This is not a matter of comfort but of health.

SSLy 12y ago

> Another thing we don't really have is air conditioning (might be a climate thing). This one is a climate thing.

teamhappy 12y ago
Certainly for California. But what about New York for example? Have a look: http://www.eia.gov/consumption/residential/reports/2009/air-conditioning.cfm http://www.eia.gov/consumption/residential/reports/2009/air-... // Can't find numbers for Germany, but I can tell you that I don't know anybody who has AC at home. (I'm not a hippie.) // You know how examples work, right? The data is pretty clear: More than 60% of households in the USA have AC.
- usaphp 12y ago
  Summer in New York is unbearable, I am originally from Russia, I used to live in New York for many years, 28c degree in New York is nothing like 28c degree in Moscow or 28c degree in San Diego (where I live now). It's very relative, depends on a dryness of the air I guess.
- ocb 12y ago
  New York's average high in July is higher than LA's. edit: and that's without even accounting for humidity
- scythe 12y ago
  July average high in NYC is higher than LA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City#Climate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City#Climate
- jacquesm 12y ago
  The humidity gets you. Germany isn't nearly as humid as New York in the summer.
  - syshax 12y ago
    Yeah, and one major function of HVAC is to draw humidity out of the air.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- realityking 12y ago
  Fellow German here. Summer in New York is significantly warmer than in Germany. Consider for starters that NYC is on roughly the same latitude as Madrid. Different point but Germans seem to always be up in arms about the American use of air conditioning, and if it's to warm for them they should move to milder climate. Weirdly enough I've never heard anything like it about Nordic countries and heating.

munificent 12y ago

> Another thing we don't really have is air conditioning (might be a climate thing). It's insanely wasteful and chances are you'll be sweaty anyway. The average high in Munich in July is 23 °C. In Los Angeles, it's 28.4 °C. In Death Valley, California, it's 47 °C. (That's average. The highest temperature ever recorded is 57 °C.) 23 °C is what most Americans set their air conditioners to. If it never got hotter than that, we wouldn't use them either. For example, where I live (Seattle, near the northern border of the US and on the ocean), air conditioners are uncommon.

nordsieck 12y ago
It's actually tragically common for older people in hot climates (e.g. Arizona) to eschew air conditioners and die.
secabeen 12y ago
Even in Los Angeles, if you're within 5 miles of the ocean and your house was built more than 15 years ago, you won't have AC either. AC is largely a feature of mini-mansions and houses in the more inland areas.

thrownaway2424 12y ago

The first thing that pops into my mind about Germany is lederhosen and beer. But it's surprisingly difficult to diagnose large-scale socio-ecological problems from the other side of the planet.

pjlegato 12y ago

> I can't help but notice that americans (seem to) completely lack this sense of responsibility/playing your part/restraining yourself for the greater good/whatever Of course there are exceptions, but in general Americans are much more oriented to the rights of the individual and much less to collectivism and the 'greater good' than Germans. We tend to view collectivism as an inherently oppressive and dictatorial mode of social organization, a cruel enslavement and subjugation of the individual, who is prohibited from doing anything but following the mandates of the collective handed down by some vast inhuman and opaque bureaucracy. This attitude is less prevalent in more leftist areas such as California and Massachusettes, but I think it's safe to say that it's fairly representative of the average American overall. I had the reverse experience in Germany: I was amazed at the degree to which many Germans obsess extensively over the minutiae of trivial decisions (such as how far to open the water tap while washing dishes) in terms of what (vanishingly inconsequential in most cases) effect it will speculatively have on the collective good. Moreover, this seems to be cast in terms of what other people will think of you. Americans care far less about what others will think of them. We tend more towards a philosophy that says if you are not (directly) harming someone else, it's nobody else's business what you do. Germans sort their recycling into 9 seperate bins by color and composition. They could easily put everything in 1 bin and make machines to sort it automatically, or hire someone to do it by hand, but instead it is set up so everyone has to do it themselves -- so your neighbors can see that you are or are not complying with the dictates of society. Another seperate factor is that natural resources in general are far more abundant in the US than Germany. Relative to the US, Germany is a tiny country with a huge population packed into a very small space. Meticulously conserving resources is imperative when you have a high population to resource ratio, but less important when you have a huge land area with a very low average population density and so vast amounts of resources available for each person. We are just recently starting to reach the limits of what the natural available resources can support in the US. The local limit in Germany was reached centuries ago, forcing more efficient use of what was available.

emodendroket 12y ago
I think the image of Massachusetts as a bastion of "leftist" or liberal thought and ideals comes mostly from people who have never lived here. For various historical reasons the state is dominated by Democrats but many of them are comparatively conservative.

blazingfrog2 12y ago

The average for June through September here in the State Capital, Sacramento, is just over 89 degrees Fahrenheit (or almost 32 degrees Celsius). This is not a matter of comfort but of health.