5 ms·

Did the TPP risks to harm both Europeans and Americans, or only one side?

borgia 12y ago
I think you're confusing the TPP for the TTIP? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Pacific_Partnership http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Pacific_Partnership http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_Trade_and_Investment_Partnership http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_Trade_and_Investm... Both appear to be utterly toxic.
saganus 12y ago
I think it risks to harm everyone. At least based on the EFF's analysis since IANAL. It sounds like this will make it easier for corporations to extort signatory countries. As I see it, it will probably promote patent trolls, draconian copyright laws that will be extremely favorable to corporations, etc. This is really not good at all.
- happyscrappy 12y ago
  If it is so bad then why is the EU signing on?
  - AC__ 12y ago
    Exactly, Canada(my native country) has already signed, any Canadian citizen that is aware, is opposed. We also have a bill currently tabled in Canadian parliament called Bill C-51 which is an absolutely absurd piece of legislation, it will effectively muzzle all lawful protest in Canada because it will allow the government to deem a project "critical infrastructure" at will and anyone protesting then falls under the blanket definition of terrorist and can be detained for up to a year without access to legal counsel. At the same time they are introducing changes to informant protection laws that will allow them to literally enter evidence from completely anonymous sources i.e. completely fabricated lol. Sadly we no longer practice democracy in my country.
  - Vivtek 12y ago
    Same reason as America: it's all being done in secret, in Brussels, and the national governments are not being consulted, let alone (ha ha!) the public.
exelius 12y ago
From what I understand, TPP isn't about US vs. EU, it's about standardizing the global rules for business. Obviously, businesses have a disproportionate say in what gets in, and so they're asking for everything they can think of.
- ccvannorman 12y ago
  if by "a disproportionate say" you mean "the public only learned about it because the documents were illegally leaked, and it would have passed totally in secret with only corporations and politicians at the helm otherwise", then yeah.
sandstrom 12y ago
I'd argue it hurts both, for the following reasons: 1. It's conducted in secret, i.e. people aren't allowed to learn the content of the negotiations. 2. From what has leaked so far, it's under heavy influence of lobbying. E.g. the record industry and Disney lobbying for eternal copyright, patent-trolls and big pharma for broader patent scope, etc. 3. ISDS is a backdoor through which companies can overrule national laws. There are lengthy arguments online on the downsides with this. Besides, it's not like property rights are magically weak in EU/US, they are pretty strong already. -- I love free trade -- Reduction/removal of tariffs, tolls etc. are great. I'm strongly in favor of that! But this seems to be mostly a lobbying effort, hidden from public scrutiny. -- What Europeans can do -- If you live in Europe, I'd suggest emailing thoughtful, well-written comments on the TTIP to the commissioner (weak or angry arguments will only hurt the case). http://ec.europa.eu/commission/2014-2019/malmstrom/team_en http://ec.europa.eu/commission/2014-2019/malmstrom/team_en -- What Americans can do -- EFF suggested contacting D.C. representatives.

I think you're confusing the TPP for the TTIP? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Pacific_Partnership http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Pacific_Partnership http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_Trade_and_Investment_Partnership http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_Trade_and_Investm... Both appear to be utterly toxic.

saganus 12y ago

I think it risks to harm everyone. At least based on the EFF's analysis since IANAL. It sounds like this will make it easier for corporations to extort signatory countries. As I see it, it will probably promote patent trolls, draconian copyright laws that will be extremely favorable to corporations, etc. This is really not good at all.

happyscrappy 12y ago
If it is so bad then why is the EU signing on?
- AC__ 12y ago
  Exactly, Canada(my native country) has already signed, any Canadian citizen that is aware, is opposed. We also have a bill currently tabled in Canadian parliament called Bill C-51 which is an absolutely absurd piece of legislation, it will effectively muzzle all lawful protest in Canada because it will allow the government to deem a project "critical infrastructure" at will and anyone protesting then falls under the blanket definition of terrorist and can be detained for up to a year without access to legal counsel. At the same time they are introducing changes to informant protection laws that will allow them to literally enter evidence from completely anonymous sources i.e. completely fabricated lol. Sadly we no longer practice democracy in my country.
- Vivtek 12y ago
  Same reason as America: it's all being done in secret, in Brussels, and the national governments are not being consulted, let alone (ha ha!) the public.

exelius 12y ago

From what I understand, TPP isn't about US vs. EU, it's about standardizing the global rules for business. Obviously, businesses have a disproportionate say in what gets in, and so they're asking for everything they can think of.

ccvannorman 12y ago
if by "a disproportionate say" you mean "the public only learned about it because the documents were illegally leaked, and it would have passed totally in secret with only corporations and politicians at the helm otherwise", then yeah.

sandstrom 12y ago

I'd argue it hurts both, for the following reasons: 1. It's conducted in secret, i.e. people aren't allowed to learn the content of the negotiations. 2. From what has leaked so far, it's under heavy influence of lobbying. E.g. the record industry and Disney lobbying for eternal copyright, patent-trolls and big pharma for broader patent scope, etc. 3. ISDS is a backdoor through which companies can overrule national laws. There are lengthy arguments online on the downsides with this. Besides, it's not like property rights are magically weak in EU/US, they are pretty strong already. -- I love free trade -- Reduction/removal of tariffs, tolls etc. are great. I'm strongly in favor of that! But this seems to be mostly a lobbying effort, hidden from public scrutiny. -- What Europeans can do -- If you live in Europe, I'd suggest emailing thoughtful, well-written comments on the TTIP to the commissioner (weak or angry arguments will only hurt the case). http://ec.europa.eu/commission/2014-2019/malmstrom/team_en http://ec.europa.eu/commission/2014-2019/malmstrom/team_en -- What Americans can do -- EFF suggested contacting D.C. representatives.