4 ms·

It is also the entire cause of the "gentrification" problem many are so pissed off about. Nobody wants to move into a poor area, they are forced into it because

It is also the entire cause of the "gentrification" problem many are so pissed off about. Nobody wants to move into a poor area, they are forced into it because you can't build skyscraper high rises in the good areas.

lisper 12y ago
You can in Manhattan. The tallest residential structure in the U.S. is going up within a few blocks of Central Park. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/432_Park_Avenue http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/432_Park_Avenue
- dreamweapon 12y ago
  Though its owners may sometimes crash there, it's not really a "residential" structure, per se. The primary purpose it serves is as a sophisticated portfolio diversification instrument -- or (for offshore title holders), a convenient money laundering device: http://nymag.com/news/features/foreigners-hiding-money-new-york-real-estate-2014-6/index2.html http://nymag.com/news/features/foreigners-hiding-money-new-y...
- gdilla 12y ago
  But it's already unaffordable for the average NYer before it's even ready. If wealthy foreigners can park their money in manhattan, they will, without living there. That doesn't help scarcity for actual residents.
  - drak0n1c 12y ago
    I don't see why that's an argument against. If they are going to plow their money into a city it's better if it's into 1 or 2 units in a dense skyscraper rather than buying entire mid and low rise buildings. Residential skyscrapers are strictly better at reducing price pressures.
  - bradleyjg 12y ago
    I'd have no problem at all with those billionaire towers but for the nonsensical property tax breaks (421a, J51, etc). Throw in a small non-resident property tax differential and I become an enthusiastic booster. If a bunch of billionaires want to pay property taxes while using barely any city services that sounds like a win to me. We can use that money to provide better services to the people that do live in the city year round. In my observation the people who are most bitter about billionaires "buying up Manhattan" are the multimillionaires who want to be on the top of the heap.
Spooky23 12y ago
Woah there nelly. "Lifting the barriers" to development doesn't mean that a 50 story residential tower will be built in Central Park West. You are the barrier. Lifting them means that as a citizen, you lose control of your surroundings. So when a big company, say Pfizer, works with the city to raze your neighborhood through an eminent domain process, you're fucked. (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London) It doesn't eliminate gentrification, it industrialized the process.
- krschultz 12y ago
  Somewhat OT, but I worked in the building constructed due to that eminent domain process, it was really nice. Pfizer later sold the whole thing for pennies on the dollar to a defense contractor after pulling out of that town, all that after never actually building on all of the land that was leveled.
- rhino369 12y ago
  I wouldn't call giving free reign to eminent domain "lifting barriers." I don't think Manhattan is a good example of a place with too restrictive laws. But SF and DC certainly are. In DC for example, you wouldn't see 80 story apartment buildings in Georgetown, but you would see them in Chinatown, NOMA, NavyYard, and other places. Instead lower middle class black neighborhoods are converting to overpriced condos as fast as house-flippers can do it.
melling 12y ago
No, they are forced to move to these areas because they want to have a bearable commute. Your solution is to jam everyone into a more confined area. Another solution is to make commuting from a "long distance" (e.g. 60-120 miles) more bearable. In NYC, for instance, subways could be built to NJ. Faster trains (low-speed maglevs) could be built like what's being done in China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_S1,_BCR http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_S1,_BCR). Mountain View to San Francisco is 40 miles. Is there some reason that isn't a 40 minute commute?
- SilasX 12y ago
  The train part itself is 46 minutes if you take a bullet (red columns): http://www.caltrain.com/schedules/weekdaytimetable.html http://www.caltrain.com/schedules/weekdaytimetable.html That would only be your full commute, though, if you were doing deep SoMa to downtown Mountain View.
  - melling 12y ago
    Yes, this seems to be very successful. http://www.mercurynews.com/scott-herhold/ci_26809055/herhold-baby-bullet-anniversary http://www.mercurynews.com/scott-herhold/ci_26809055/herhold... We need more of this. I don't know where the low-hanging fruit is in mass transit, but a lot more could be done.
  - mikeyouse 12y ago
    The Caltrain electrification project will further speed this trip since electric trains can accelerate and decelerate more rapidly. The full San Jose to SoMa trip should be roughly 16 minutes quicker based on impact studies.
  - cbhl 12y ago
    Some 5 to 10% of Caltrains are delayed though, and if that delay happens to be a fatality, expect that train to be really late. (2011) http://www.caltrain.com/Assets/__Agendas+and+Minutes/JPB/Board+of+Directors/Presentations/2011/6-2-11+On-time+Performance-Harvey.pdf http://www.caltrain.com/Assets/__Agendas+and+Minutes/JPB/Boa...
- 12y ago

lisper 12y ago

You can in Manhattan. The tallest residential structure in the U.S. is going up within a few blocks of Central Park. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/432_Park_Avenue http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/432_Park_Avenue

dreamweapon 12y ago
Though its owners may sometimes crash there, it's not really a "residential" structure, per se. The primary purpose it serves is as a sophisticated portfolio diversification instrument -- or (for offshore title holders), a convenient money laundering device: http://nymag.com/news/features/foreigners-hiding-money-new-york-real-estate-2014-6/index2.html http://nymag.com/news/features/foreigners-hiding-money-new-y...
gdilla 12y ago
But it's already unaffordable for the average NYer before it's even ready. If wealthy foreigners can park their money in manhattan, they will, without living there. That doesn't help scarcity for actual residents.
- drak0n1c 12y ago
  I don't see why that's an argument against. If they are going to plow their money into a city it's better if it's into 1 or 2 units in a dense skyscraper rather than buying entire mid and low rise buildings. Residential skyscrapers are strictly better at reducing price pressures.
- bradleyjg 12y ago
  I'd have no problem at all with those billionaire towers but for the nonsensical property tax breaks (421a, J51, etc). Throw in a small non-resident property tax differential and I become an enthusiastic booster. If a bunch of billionaires want to pay property taxes while using barely any city services that sounds like a win to me. We can use that money to provide better services to the people that do live in the city year round. In my observation the people who are most bitter about billionaires "buying up Manhattan" are the multimillionaires who want to be on the top of the heap.

Spooky23 12y ago

Woah there nelly. "Lifting the barriers" to development doesn't mean that a 50 story residential tower will be built in Central Park West. You are the barrier. Lifting them means that as a citizen, you lose control of your surroundings. So when a big company, say Pfizer, works with the city to raze your neighborhood through an eminent domain process, you're fucked. (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London) It doesn't eliminate gentrification, it industrialized the process.

krschultz 12y ago
Somewhat OT, but I worked in the building constructed due to that eminent domain process, it was really nice. Pfizer later sold the whole thing for pennies on the dollar to a defense contractor after pulling out of that town, all that after never actually building on all of the land that was leveled.
rhino369 12y ago
I wouldn't call giving free reign to eminent domain "lifting barriers." I don't think Manhattan is a good example of a place with too restrictive laws. But SF and DC certainly are. In DC for example, you wouldn't see 80 story apartment buildings in Georgetown, but you would see them in Chinatown, NOMA, NavyYard, and other places. Instead lower middle class black neighborhoods are converting to overpriced condos as fast as house-flippers can do it.

melling 12y ago

No, they are forced to move to these areas because they want to have a bearable commute. Your solution is to jam everyone into a more confined area. Another solution is to make commuting from a "long distance" (e.g. 60-120 miles) more bearable. In NYC, for instance, subways could be built to NJ. Faster trains (low-speed maglevs) could be built like what's being done in China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_S1,_BCR http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_S1,_BCR). Mountain View to San Francisco is 40 miles. Is there some reason that isn't a 40 minute commute?

SilasX 12y ago
The train part itself is 46 minutes if you take a bullet (red columns): http://www.caltrain.com/schedules/weekdaytimetable.html http://www.caltrain.com/schedules/weekdaytimetable.html That would only be your full commute, though, if you were doing deep SoMa to downtown Mountain View.
- melling 12y ago
  Yes, this seems to be very successful. http://www.mercurynews.com/scott-herhold/ci_26809055/herhold-baby-bullet-anniversary http://www.mercurynews.com/scott-herhold/ci_26809055/herhold... We need more of this. I don't know where the low-hanging fruit is in mass transit, but a lot more could be done.
- mikeyouse 12y ago
  The Caltrain electrification project will further speed this trip since electric trains can accelerate and decelerate more rapidly. The full San Jose to SoMa trip should be roughly 16 minutes quicker based on impact studies.
- cbhl 12y ago
  Some 5 to 10% of Caltrains are delayed though, and if that delay happens to be a fatality, expect that train to be really late. (2011) http://www.caltrain.com/Assets/__Agendas+and+Minutes/JPB/Board+of+Directors/Presentations/2011/6-2-11+On-time+Performance-Harvey.pdf http://www.caltrain.com/Assets/__Agendas+and+Minutes/JPB/Boa...
12y ago