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That is a pretty astonishing straw man. I have said it is a nonsense to talk of teaching what was referred to as 'modesty and self effacement' as being a violen

That is a pretty astonishing straw man. I have said it is a nonsense to talk of teaching what was referred to as 'modesty and self effacement' as being a violence and trauma, and your conclusion is that I am a cultural relativist who believes that Saudi Arabian attitudes shouldn't be criticized and that it's fine to beat children for punishment. Congratulations on that deduction!

dalke 12y ago
I wrote "Being told once that an idea of yours is nothing? Survivable. Being told that from a baby? That changes your life. And not really in a good way." From that you inferred I was a cultural chauvinist. Or was it the author? I can't tell. But I generally agree with author's negative views on those parts of the traditional Swedish upbringing, and prefer the modern ones more. In any case, given that Swedes actively worked to change their culture, they didn't like it either. You broadened the conversation to be "other cultures". Yes, your shift from specific details about older Swedish culture to a generic "some cultures" diminishes the importance of observations, and yes, sounds very much like relativism. The comment about the corporal punishment was in the context of changes to Swedish child-raising practices in the mid-20th century. I meant it only as an example of how the examples I quoted fit into the internal debates in Swedish culture. Yes, I think that beating one's children is violence, and may lead to trauma. I'm much more sure of that than being able to make a full understanding of early 20th century Swedish culture to say the same about that situation. What I think is important is the evidence that small phrases, like "you are nothing" and "dumb Swede", can cause unappreciated emotional turmoil. As these examples predate the concept of "microagressions", there's no chance that these were induced by the modern zeitgeist.

dalke 12y ago

I wrote "Being told once that an idea of yours is nothing? Survivable. Being told that from a baby? That changes your life. And not really in a good way." From that you inferred I was a cultural chauvinist. Or was it the author? I can't tell. But I generally agree with author's negative views on those parts of the traditional Swedish upbringing, and prefer the modern ones more. In any case, given that Swedes actively worked to change their culture, they didn't like it either. You broadened the conversation to be "other cultures". Yes, your shift from specific details about older Swedish culture to a generic "some cultures" diminishes the importance of observations, and yes, sounds very much like relativism. The comment about the corporal punishment was in the context of changes to Swedish child-raising practices in the mid-20th century. I meant it only as an example of how the examples I quoted fit into the internal debates in Swedish culture. Yes, I think that beating one's children is violence, and may lead to trauma. I'm much more sure of that than being able to make a full understanding of early 20th century Swedish culture to say the same about that situation. What I think is important is the evidence that small phrases, like "you are nothing" and "dumb Swede", can cause unappreciated emotional turmoil. As these examples predate the concept of "microagressions", there's no chance that these were induced by the modern zeitgeist.