7 ms·

Tomb Raider and the Fall of Core Design

105 points by prajjwal 12y ago

__david__ 12y ago
I have to say that Crystal Dynamics just killed it with the latest Tomb Raider reboot. I had written off the whole series as a cash cow churning out title after title of boring sequel. But I tried the 2013 reboot and it hit all the right notes with me. I rarely play games to full 100% completion, but I played Tomb Raider 2013 until I had found everything (all collectables, etc). It's really a great game.
- nailer 12y ago
  Same here, 2013 has a real sense of exploration and survival. I don't play a lot of games but I picked this up during a steam sale a while ago and am really enjoying it.
  - simplicio 12y ago
    I enjoyed it, but thought it suffered from a lack of...Tomb Raiding. I missed the puzzles that defined the earlier iterations of the game (and provided the name of the franchise.) The little single room tombs they put in the new game were so easy as to barely be puzzles at all. But the rest of the game was fun, so I'm looking forward to the next instalment. Hopefully they'll throw in some actual Tombs.
    - frik 12y ago
      > next installment Rise of the Tomb Raider will be a time-exclusive XBox game, and released to other platforms (months/years?) later. GTA V (2013) is still not released on PC. Halo 1 and 2 had been released years later to PC by Microsoft and part 2 was Vista-only for marketing reasons. Age of Empires, Flight Simulator and many other Microsoft Games PC games series were destroyed/stopped years ago. Why should one upgrade to Win10 for PC games? For their DirectX12? Don't turn Rise of the Tomb Raider in the next Halo 1/2 for PC! Everyone still remembers the Vista-only DirectX11 while all games were stuck with DirectX9c for many years and WinXP support. Somehow Microsoft forgot why Win95 was so successful and won the operating system war - a huge part were PC games with Win95 launch games like Hoover, Pinball, SimCity 2000 for Win95, Doom 2 for Win95, Pitfall for Win95 (WinG and DirectPlay, DirectSound, DirectX2D APIs). Look at Steam, look at GoodOldGames (GoG). SteamBox is already around the corner.
- mehhhhhhh 12y ago
  Did you play the original? You probably liked the reboot because it is aims for the lowest common denominator( as most AAA games today do ). It is made to be really easy to play, since the obligation to keep the player playing, takes priority over gameplay. The goal is to prevent player getting stuck by Any Means Necessary; keep them always occupied so they don't get frustrated and quit. For example: You always now where to go thanks to the always present directions and the minimap, quick-time events replace sequences where skill mattered, there is a tutorial for everything, treasures and trinkets keep players, who have hoarder inclinations, occupied. The original has None of Those. You were presented with a level and that was the obstacle. The satisfaction was deeper, you felt good because you actually had to suffer and persevere and choose to not quit. When you finally you solved the level you really accomplished something.
  - jkrems 12y ago
    I personally enjoy games for characters & stories. I don't need to "fight the game" for a sense of accomplishment. Not sure why that's "worse" than playing games that are hard to master. I played hard games in the past. I don't feel a sense of accomplishment. I feel like a wasted an hour learning an entirely useless skill. It's fine to like a certain kind of game. There are plenty of games that are hard and if you want to play them - good for you! But it feels kind of weird to say that the quality of a game is relative to how frustrating it is to play. Games are a form of entertainment after all.
  - toki5 12y ago
    I was kept occupied throughout the game and I didn't go out of my way to collect things (in fact it's rare for me to find a game in which I do that). Also, quicktime events "replacing skill" is a little unfair. What skill did they replace, and how did it differ mechanically from a quicktime event?
  - sliverstorm 12y ago
    It's fun to be challenged in skill, in interesting fights or puzzles. But getting lost or not knowing where to go all the time, that's just a time-waster. Like the whole category of "fetch" quests. Especially when you quit a game for a week, and come back having forgotten the map and your latest goal. If you make a dungeon crawler for the express purpose of making a dungeon crawler (Grimrock?) it can be fun to lack directions, have no minimap, take notes, draw maps by hand... but not every game means to be like that, and it isn't the only valid way to make a game. Sometimes the "on-rails" approach is actually the most fitting. Mirror's Edge, anyone? The best part of that game was getting into a groove and feeling the flow as you dash through levels. "The grind" is antithetical to the point of the game. Remember, it's just bits- games are for enjoyment. Suffering isn't the point (unless that's what you enjoy)
- ericclemmons 12y ago
  Man, I totally agree. Just from the beginning, watching someone get hurt actually made me feel something, compared to the paper-thin characters in other games. My wife and I planned out each evening to be our "movie night" for this game, and found the pace and story well crafted.
venomsnake 12y ago
Good thing - due to kickstarter and steam we are slowly returning to the golden days - all the best games of the last few years (not the most polished, just the best) are not AAA blockbusters. Outside of AAA we see a lot of new properties, no sequels, innovation and risk taking. Also what are doing on HN instead of plowing trough Pillars of Eternity ...
- bshimmin 12y ago
  For anyone else struggling to work out what "AAA" stands for, apparently it's just "triple A" (like batteries): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AAA_%28game_industry%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AAA_%28game_industry%29
  - danmaz74 12y ago
    I would say, more like credit rating than like batteries :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond_credit_rating http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond_credit_rating
    - acheron 12y ago
      Ohh, I suppose that makes more sense than what I always think of, which is minor league baseball. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple-A_%28baseball%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple-A_%28baseball%29
jds375 12y ago
"Don't fuck up the culture" rings true here.

105 points by prajjwal 12y ago

I have to say that Crystal Dynamics just killed it with the latest Tomb Raider reboot. I had written off the whole series as a cash cow churning out title after title of boring sequel. But I tried the 2013 reboot and it hit all the right notes with me. I rarely play games to full 100% completion, but I played Tomb Raider 2013 until I had found everything (all collectables, etc). It's really a great game.

nailer 12y ago
Same here, 2013 has a real sense of exploration and survival. I don't play a lot of games but I picked this up during a steam sale a while ago and am really enjoying it.
- simplicio 12y ago
  I enjoyed it, but thought it suffered from a lack of...Tomb Raiding. I missed the puzzles that defined the earlier iterations of the game (and provided the name of the franchise.) The little single room tombs they put in the new game were so easy as to barely be puzzles at all. But the rest of the game was fun, so I'm looking forward to the next instalment. Hopefully they'll throw in some actual Tombs.
  - frik 12y ago
    > next installment Rise of the Tomb Raider will be a time-exclusive XBox game, and released to other platforms (months/years?) later. GTA V (2013) is still not released on PC. Halo 1 and 2 had been released years later to PC by Microsoft and part 2 was Vista-only for marketing reasons. Age of Empires, Flight Simulator and many other Microsoft Games PC games series were destroyed/stopped years ago. Why should one upgrade to Win10 for PC games? For their DirectX12? Don't turn Rise of the Tomb Raider in the next Halo 1/2 for PC! Everyone still remembers the Vista-only DirectX11 while all games were stuck with DirectX9c for many years and WinXP support. Somehow Microsoft forgot why Win95 was so successful and won the operating system war - a huge part were PC games with Win95 launch games like Hoover, Pinball, SimCity 2000 for Win95, Doom 2 for Win95, Pitfall for Win95 (WinG and DirectPlay, DirectSound, DirectX2D APIs). Look at Steam, look at GoodOldGames (GoG). SteamBox is already around the corner.
mehhhhhhh 12y ago
Did you play the original? You probably liked the reboot because it is aims for the lowest common denominator( as most AAA games today do ). It is made to be really easy to play, since the obligation to keep the player playing, takes priority over gameplay. The goal is to prevent player getting stuck by Any Means Necessary; keep them always occupied so they don't get frustrated and quit. For example: You always now where to go thanks to the always present directions and the minimap, quick-time events replace sequences where skill mattered, there is a tutorial for everything, treasures and trinkets keep players, who have hoarder inclinations, occupied. The original has None of Those. You were presented with a level and that was the obstacle. The satisfaction was deeper, you felt good because you actually had to suffer and persevere and choose to not quit. When you finally you solved the level you really accomplished something.
- jkrems 12y ago
  I personally enjoy games for characters & stories. I don't need to "fight the game" for a sense of accomplishment. Not sure why that's "worse" than playing games that are hard to master. I played hard games in the past. I don't feel a sense of accomplishment. I feel like a wasted an hour learning an entirely useless skill. It's fine to like a certain kind of game. There are plenty of games that are hard and if you want to play them - good for you! But it feels kind of weird to say that the quality of a game is relative to how frustrating it is to play. Games are a form of entertainment after all.
- toki5 12y ago
  I was kept occupied throughout the game and I didn't go out of my way to collect things (in fact it's rare for me to find a game in which I do that). Also, quicktime events "replacing skill" is a little unfair. What skill did they replace, and how did it differ mechanically from a quicktime event?
- sliverstorm 12y ago
  It's fun to be challenged in skill, in interesting fights or puzzles. But getting lost or not knowing where to go all the time, that's just a time-waster. Like the whole category of "fetch" quests. Especially when you quit a game for a week, and come back having forgotten the map and your latest goal. If you make a dungeon crawler for the express purpose of making a dungeon crawler (Grimrock?) it can be fun to lack directions, have no minimap, take notes, draw maps by hand... but not every game means to be like that, and it isn't the only valid way to make a game. Sometimes the "on-rails" approach is actually the most fitting. Mirror's Edge, anyone? The best part of that game was getting into a groove and feeling the flow as you dash through levels. "The grind" is antithetical to the point of the game. Remember, it's just bits- games are for enjoyment. Suffering isn't the point (unless that's what you enjoy)
ericclemmons 12y ago
Man, I totally agree. Just from the beginning, watching someone get hurt actually made me feel something, compared to the paper-thin characters in other games. My wife and I planned out each evening to be our "movie night" for this game, and found the pace and story well crafted.

venomsnake 12y ago

Good thing - due to kickstarter and steam we are slowly returning to the golden days - all the best games of the last few years (not the most polished, just the best) are not AAA blockbusters. Outside of AAA we see a lot of new properties, no sequels, innovation and risk taking. Also what are doing on HN instead of plowing trough Pillars of Eternity ...

bshimmin 12y ago
For anyone else struggling to work out what "AAA" stands for, apparently it's just "triple A" (like batteries): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AAA_%28game_industry%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AAA_%28game_industry%29
- danmaz74 12y ago
  I would say, more like credit rating than like batteries :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond_credit_rating http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond_credit_rating
  - acheron 12y ago
    Ohh, I suppose that makes more sense than what I always think of, which is minor league baseball. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple-A_%28baseball%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple-A_%28baseball%29

jds375 12y ago

"Don't fuck up the culture" rings true here.