10 ms·

Where is the $149 Windows-Based laptop with SSD, 2-4GB RAM, and moderate graphics, that can run your usual Office to Minecraft software? The Chromebook-killer

• elchief 12y ago
  Microsoft isn't as good at collecting and reselling all of your personal information, so have to charge the actual cost of the hardware.
  • daeken 12y ago
    > Microsoft isn't as good at collecting and reselling all of your personal information, so have to charge the actual cost of the hardware. Google does not sell your personal information in any way. They use it for their own advertising purposes, but they don't sell it to anyone, in any form.
    • razvanh 12y ago
      advertising is selling your information to advertisers.
      • Karunamon 12y ago
        Even that's not accurate. Advertising is selling access to people matching a certain demographic profile to advertisers. They maintain a demographic profile (arguable: how accurate and comprehensive it is) by way of this line of business, but at no point is that profile sold to advertisers. At no point has Google, or any other reputable ad network, had a system whereby you can download the information, personal or otherwise, of a few million people. This is misleading and hyperbolic. Stop it. If you want a view as to what advertising is actually like and what an advertiser can actually see, go sign up for Adwords and step through the process. I guarantee it is not as sketchy as you make it out to be.
        • ksk 12y ago
          Google has indeed sold information to the NSA. http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertlenzner/2013/09/23/attverizonsprint-are-paid-cash-by-nsa-for-your-private-communications/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertlenzner/2013/09/23/attveri...
          • asuffield 12y ago
            (Tedious disclaimer: my opinion, not my employer's. Not representing anybody but me. I work at Google, not on lawful intercept.) That's not what this article says. This article is about what happens when the government lawfully issues a warrant to obtain somebody's private data, and orders a private company to give them the data. When this happens the company has some rights to recover their costs from the government. You may not like what the US government is doing here. I certainly don't. But it's still the law, and companies that operate in the US have to comply with it.
            • ksk 12y ago
              >But it's still the law, and companies that operate in the US have to comply with it. It's interesting that you guys figured out how to circumvent the US tax law, by hiding money in tax havens. I guess dodging the NSA warrants is not a priority.
              • Karunamon 12y ago
                The tax code is byzantine and full of loopholes. Warrants are comparatively straightforward. The paper says "jump", you say "how high?" or else. In any case, handed a warrant signed by a judge (kangaroo FISA court or otherwise), you hand over the info first and fight it later. Anything else is obstruction.
                • ksk 12y ago
                  OK, your opinion on warrants is noted.
              • 12y ago
      • stdgy 12y ago
        Google is NOT in the business of selling information to advertisers. They're in the business of choosing who to advertise products to based on the information they collect and hold onto. There is a significant difference between the two.
        • jboy55 12y ago
          Google is the advertiser. Just replace the word 'Google' with 'Doubleclick'. It starts to make sense. When you use mail.doubleclick.com for your email, and www.doubleclick.com to search the web, all from your DoubleClick based phone, its pretty easy to understand the situation.
          • Karunamon 12y ago
            Nobody here is under any misconceptions that Google doesn't get most of their money from advertising - where we diverge is what their overall mission is and how good or bad those ad tactics are, and if they represent a good tradeoff for the services they provide. Personally, I've got no issues letting them build a better profile in return for some of the best web services out there. I owe my career to the excellence of their search product.
            • towelguy 12y ago
              I find duckduckgo equally effective and they don't need to build a profile on me to do it.
              • Karunamon 12y ago
                What often gets ignored in that value judgement is that the profile can lead to more relevant search results. (Subjectively, Google's results get better when I'm signed in.) At least for me, using DDG is like stepping back into the 90's as far as search result quality goes.
                • tracker1 12y ago
    • gonzo 12y ago
      With Google, the product is you. You (your demographic profile) is sold, by Google, to their advertisers. This includes potentially identifying information.
      • patmcc 12y ago
        That's completely untrue. Advertisers come to Google and say "we want to sell this, people in these demographics would like it" and Google shows it to me or you based on what it knows about us. Google knows lots about me; people who buy adwords don't.
        • exceptthis 12y ago
          They know that every person who clicks on their add is within the demographic profile they targeted. They do, indirectly, buy that information - and there's no way to operate Google's business model without that remaining true.
        • pmelendez 12y ago
          Google does help them (google's advertisers) to track you indirectly. Not throught the adwords networks but throught the RTB network (DoubleClick). You can easily validate this by checking all the "pixels" (in the RTB sense) that are being deployed by Google. In their defense, they do mask a lot of things so stuff like the full IP address are not available (last time I worked on that they just give you the three first segments) but still quite a few information was available to target your demographic segment. Edit: For downvoters and people curious about tracking pixels: - https://support.google.com/dfp_premium/answer/1347585?hl=en https://support.google.com/dfp_premium/answer/1347585?hl=en - https://support.google.com/dfp_premium/answer/2508388?hl=en https://support.google.com/dfp_premium/answer/2508388?hl=en
          • bduerst 12y ago
            Tracking pixels are pretty standard for the web analytics industry, and are a tool to aggregate information, not sell. Google, Facebook, Optimizely, Marketo, etc. all use them. If you really want to learn more, you can read the wikipedia page on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/tracking_pixel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/tracking_pixel
    • dsl 12y ago
      It is a derivitative product, you're just splitting hairs. As squeaky clean as everyone in the valley believes Google to be, even most Googlers would be surprised with the type of work and contacts taken on by Google Federal (hint: it's not just Google Apps for the military). Here is a list of their current unclassified military contracts: https://www.fpds.gov/ezsearch/fpdsportal?indexName=awardfull&templateName=1.4.4&s=FPDSNG.COM&q=google+DEPARTMENT_FULL_NAME%3A%22DEPT+OF+DEFENSE%22&x=0&y=0 https://www.fpds.gov/ezsearch/fpdsportal?indexName=awardfull...
      • icebraining 12y ago
        It's not about being "clean". It's that the most profitable way to go about it is not to sell the info, but rent its use over and over again, keeping the actual data closed (except to LE, of course). If you assume they're completely profit driven, it still makes sense for them to protect your data from other companies.
      • wehadfun 12y ago
        Found something called Robogator in there
        • nevir 12y ago
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CnamzIE3Rg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CnamzIE3Rg
      • linkregister 12y ago
        What's sinister in that list? I just see things that look like purchase orders for Google search appliances, a vague "research" contract at Army Research Labs, and what looks to be mapping consulting by NGA. If you're going to make a claim and drop a link on us, please tell us what's actually there to support your claim.
        • Sanddancer 12y ago
          The research contract is the stuff with their Boston Dynamics subdivision -- all the abusable quad walker robots and stuff.
    • maaku 12y ago
      > They use it for their own advertising purposes, but they don't sell it to anyone, in any form. Some people wouldn't distinguish those two.
      • jhall1468 12y ago
        Some people don't distinguish a knife from an elephant, but those people are wrong too.
        • maaku 12y ago
          If I don't want people paying someone else to use my information, I don't care whether that party ever actually sees it or not.
          • bduerst 12y ago
            I don't get it - are you saying you don't like knives and elephants?
  • lern_too_spel 12y ago
    Microsoft is as good at collecting personal information as anybody. Collecting information isn't hard. They're just not very good at making that information useful to the people who provide that information or to themselves, via advertising or otherwise.
    • kakisoop 12y ago
      could you tell me which personal information of yours was sold by google?
  • dudus 12y ago
    These devices are made by other companies not Google. How do they profit from advertisement. Are you implying that Google pays these companies when they sell their own devices with Google software in it?
    • CrazyCatDog 12y ago
      Yes. It's no longer a secret that Google has begun to share ad-revenue with oem's. Fortunately, Microsoft is in no position to do so.
      • deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
  • sjtechie 12y ago
    Shilling for Microsoft huh? What makes you think that Google sells your personal info?
• raesene9 12y ago
  http://www.amazon.com/HP-Stream-Laptop-Personal-Horizon/dp/B00NSHLUBU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1427824278&sr=8-1&keywords=hp+stream+11 http://www.amazon.com/HP-Stream-Laptop-Personal-Horizon/dp/B... HP Stream 11 is likely the closest to what you're looking for $199 so slightly more expensive, but a year of Office365 included...
  • jasonlotito 12y ago
    For those interested, here is a review http://www.anandtech.com/show/8784/hp-stream-11-review-a-new-take-on-low-cost-computing http://www.anandtech.com/show/8784/hp-stream-11-review-a-new... tl;dr: "...if you have been wanting a Chromebook running Windows, be sure to check out the HP Stream."
  • pyrocat 12y ago
    the first hit is always free
    • pyrocat 12y ago
      downvotes for disagreeing with the O365 business model? thanks hacker news!
  • glenstein 12y ago
    I was going to post this if somebody else didn't. To add one important detail: the HP Stream you linked doesn't just exist as a proof of concept or whatever, which would be one thing, but it's currently outselling all the Chromebooks (and every other laptop for that matter) on Amazon. Chromebooks dominated in 2014, but they've been bumped and I'm not sure they'll ever be back at the top. Rather than a sea change, it looks like Google was just ahead of its competitors for a year, and now that year has come and gone.
    • pjmlp 12y ago
      Actually that was a USA only phenomenon, I never saw Chromebooks live in Europe. Here in Germany, some chain stores do have a few of them at their little corner being ignored by everyone.
• deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
• publicfig 12y ago
  Minecraft is a pretty intensive application, don't be fooled just because the graphics seem to be less clean. There are lighter versions of Minecraft for different platforms, but those are often incredibly limited and only support the specific platform.
• josefresco 12y ago
  $149 is ridiculously cheap and I don't think Microsoft wants, or should want to operate in that market. At the $200-$300 price range there are many Windows choices - most with significantly better hardware and features. Microsoft: Leave the sub $200 market to others and leverage your online services to sell to those consumers.
  • SwellJoe 12y ago
    Microsoft ate IBM and others from the bottom, because the margins were too low on PC vs mainframe and minis. And now, you're suggesting Microsoft should accept being eaten from the bottom because the margins are too low (I guess that's what you're arguing). Classic innovator's dilemma scenario. Those who don't learn from history will repeat it. Even those who made the history in question.
    • cardine 12y ago
      What makes the Chromebook a disruptive innovation?
      • austinsharp 12y ago
        It's cheaper and simpler with less functionality. Isn't that the broad idea [1]? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disruptive_innovation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disruptive_innovation
        • cardine 12y ago
          A disruptive innovation is an innovation that creates a new market. What market does the Chromebook create that a $200 netbook didn't already create?
          • SwellJoe 12y ago
            Sometimes, all it takes to be disruptive is to be cheaper. "What market does the Chromebook create that a $200 netbook didn't already create?" I prefer to think we mostly find markets rather than create them, generally speaking. Chromebook may find a market in India or Africa or China. Places where a mobile device was everybody's first experience with personal computing, so the idea of it being intimately tied to the network isn't so strange. And, just as importantly, where $50 is a weeks wages so it seems a lot more important to spend 25% less on the device. I can see how me invoking Innovator's Dilemma here is possibly a stretch from some perspectives. Even if it is not disruptive innovation in the sense you prefer, it is still seeming more and more likely to continue to erode Microsoft's dominance in the places they have always been very, very strong: Cheap home PCs. Also, I think the argument could be made that this is a better product for less money. Windows on such scanty hardware is a pretty rough experience. Chrome OS on tiny machines isn't so bad. And, for people who already only use their computer for Internet stuff, there are no benefits to the Windows experience and plenty of negatives. So, this isn't a situation of, "Why would I get a dinky little fake computer if it's only $50 less than a good computer with Windows?" It's more of a "Why would I spend more for a computer that is slow, clunky, has a bunch of crap I don't need/want only so I can use also-ran webmail, online docs, etc. when I can get the market leading stuff for less?" I dunno, really. I'm just trying to imagine this from the perspective of someone who didn't grow up in a world dominated by Microsoft, because that's the world we now live in. The world is now dominated by Google with Apple and Facebook as thought leaders on the periphery. Things are different now, and getting a computer with Windows on it just isn't a thing that (young) people care so much about.
• smackfu 12y ago
  This is running an ARM chip, not an x86 one.
  • higherpurpose 12y ago
    What does that have to do with anything. Minecraft runs on ARM.
    • smackfu 12y ago
      Minecraft, yes. Other Windows software, maybe, if you are lucky.
• higherpurpose 12y ago
  A $150 Windows-based laptop would be a crappy netbook. Chrome should run significantly better on Chrome OS than it does on Windows or IE does on Windows for that matter. Also, Chromebooks usually seem to be targeted at kids or tech illiterate folks who don't want the complexity of Windows. Even a $99 Windows machine won't change that. And what about the security of Chrome OS? It's "virtually" unhackable, while Windows...well, it's Windows. As for Minecraft, Google has been promising Android apps on Chromebooks, so maybe before long that will work, too. But as others have said, it's still $150 hardware. So I wouldn't expect too much from it. Also, last I checked Office also runs in the browser now? Microsoft seems to be making quite a big deal about that actually.
  • pmelendez 12y ago
    >Chrome should run significantly better on Chrome OS than it does on Windows or IE does on Windows for that matter. I wouldn't be so sure about that. In my machine IE and Firefox beats Chrome performance almost in everything. And I have seen ~$100 tablets running Windows 8.1 and the performance is far from crappy.
  • Sanddancer 12y ago
    I've got a $100 tablet and $30 bluetooth keyboard running windows. This means that I have a small form factor machine that I can develop on, and with a usb otg cord, I can connect to near anything I want. Finally, it comes with a real bios, so I can install whatever operating system I want on it, without doing silly things like removing screws.
    • bobajeff 12y ago
      I would like more details on this. What kind of development are you doing? What was the specific tablet and bluetooth keyboard you got?
      • Sanddancer 12y ago
        Development is mostly using Avr Studio to do embedded stuff. The tablet was the Asus VivoTab8, the non-note version, unfortunately. The bluetooth keyboard was just some generic keyboard and case [1]. My only complaint really is that the meta keys are cranky within putty, but other than that, it's been pretty solid for me. [1] http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KCKXIXE/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_3?pf_rd_p=1944687762&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B00IOQCXM0&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0Z4EHW0T59R2ZPZPZNC6 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KCKXIXE/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_d...
• e40 12y ago
  My son uses a Chromebook for homework and a Windows PC for games. I consider it a huge feature that they are separate devices. Much too tempting otherwise.
  • analog31 12y ago
    We're doing a similar thing but with a Raspberry Pi that I've stripped down so it runs nothing but a plain text editor. It's just what we had lying around when the issue came to a head. There was the temptation of the Web, but even the fonts and settings of a regular word processor were too distracting. He's happy with the solution. It's a little bit geeky and weird, which is an attraction for him.
• fsiefken 12y ago
  put linux on the chromebook and you can run libreoffice, gnumeric and minecraft
  • have_humility 12y ago
    Have you done this? If so, what JRE are you using for Minecraft? I know that trying to run Android Studio with the OpenJDK JRE on hardware with a similar clock speed, is pret-ty slow even when that hardware is x86. I can't imagine what it would be like on ARM.
• newsreader 12y ago
  Got this one for my granddaughter for Christmas and she loves it: Asus11634 Laptop Intel Atom 2GB Memory 32GB Flash Paid $148.53 plus tax at BestBuy.com. At first I thought that the 32GB drive would be a problem but with the OneDrive integration she has plenty of space. She also plays Minecraft and other games without any problems.
• drzaiusapelord 12y ago
  There are Windows tablets at that price range that can run office. Not idea if they can run Minecraft, considering its a horribly unoptimized java application. The HP Stream 7 and 8 has an x86 1.8ghz atom chip in it. BYOK. The Stream 11 has a keyboard but chimes in at $199. Games using DirectX and native libraries work. There are a lot of Stream 7 and 8 youtube videos showing gaming performance. If anything, the Chromebook is overpriced. It really should be a $49 near disposable laptop. Even then, in the age of cheap tablets, it may not be more than an education market novelty. More here: http://www.gizmag.com/five-windows-81-tablets-under-200/34977/ http://www.gizmag.com/five-windows-81-tablets-under-200/3497...
  • 72deluxe 12y ago
    Very true, those HP Stream devices look competitive compared to these Chromebooks.
• spyder 12y ago
  There are Windows 8.1 tablets that are not far from that: http://www.tinydeal.com/windows-tablets-c-997_1002.html?zenid=d0ieonfgf9bmt1kpqiv3fn07a6&currency=USD http://www.tinydeal.com/windows-tablets-c-997_1002.html?zeni... These have the Quad Core Intel Atom Bay-Trail processor which is good enough for non compute demanding things and even some older games are running fine on them, also a quick search shows that Minecraft too runs playable on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7dBOaHmW94 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7dBOaHmW94
• maaku 12y ago
  > Honestly, the only reason my kids don't have Chromebooks is because they don't easily run Minecraft or downloadable games. Some parents would consider this a good thing.
• mark_l_watson 12y ago
  Earlier this year I bought an HP Stream 11" laptop directly from Microsoft for $199 (no crapware if you buy a Windows machine directly from Microsoft). The build quality is good, and with a cheap 32gig extra flash memory card it is fine for web browsing and some light weight development (I use IntelliJ). This laptop came with about $140 of free software and services coupons - perhaps if those were not included, Microsoft could approach your $149 price point.
  • Tloewald 12y ago
    I doubt you're paying for the "free" software -- it's all loss-leaders. If anything it may be reducing the cost of the device.
• jonah 12y ago
  In the works according to rumors. http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20150327VL201.html http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20150327VL201.html http://www.forbes.com/sites/antonyleather/2015/03/29/microsoft-aims-to-kill-google-chromebooks-with-149-windows-10-laptops/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/antonyleather/2015/03/29/microso...
• tolmasky 12y ago
  Chromebook can now run Android apps (a few now, more as time goes on). That means soon people will be able to play their android games on them, including Minecraft pocket?
• grok2 12y ago
  HP Stream comes pretty close (I think they are better than the Chromebooks though a bit pricier) -- http://store.hp.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ContentView?eSpotName=Stream11&storeId=10151&langId=-1&catalogId=10051 http://store.hp.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ContentView?eS...
• kidlogic 12y ago
  https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=codestarter%20github%20ubuntu https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&e... Codestarter's Ubuntu Package comes with Minecraft and other programming/educational resources. I am running an Acer 720 with 4gb of Ram and 128gb SSD - best laptop I've ever owned.
• sjg007 12y ago
  It's sad because Minecraft was originally Java...