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That doesn't stop the NSA from doing them. I applied to work for the NSA as a mathematician in 2007-8 and went through two separate trips to Fort Meade and two

That doesn't stop the NSA from doing them. I applied to work for the NSA as a mathematician in 2007-8 and went through two separate trips to Fort Meade and two separate polygraphs.

logfromblammo 12y ago
It's not about collecting or verifying information. The goal of the exercise is to make you fearful, intimidated, and compliant, and to reinforce the government's dominance over you. The polygraph is just a prop. The examiner is the one really measuring you. Even if your saint's halo is still slightly visible at noon on a sunny day, you will always be given the impression that you barely passed. So it hardly matters that a polygraph is pseudoscience, because the placebo effect is real. If you think you're being objectively measured by a machine, instead of subjectively judged by a man, that makes his job simpler. Otherwise, it's Iocaine Powder. (I can neither confirm nor deny whether I have any actual experience with polygraph testing, or whether I know anyone who does.)
- schoen 12y ago
  I remember seeing a U.S. government counterintelligence film (maybe linked from HN?) meant to discourage people, especially exchange students, from being recruited as assets of Chinese spy agencies. It was based on a true story in which an American was recruited and then applied for a clearance at the instigation of his foreign contacts. In the film, he was caught as a result of failing a polygraph: when uncomfortable questions arise during the examination, he asks to discontinue it and withdraw his application, and they don't let him get away with that; they end up prosecuting him and he pleads guilty to espionage charges. I couldn't help thinking that the polygraph might have worked in that situation mainly because he believed it would! Edit: maybe this also belongs in http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ClapYourHandsIfYouBelieve http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ClapYourHandsIfYo...
  - csandreasen 12y ago
    I think you're referring to the 'Game of Pawns' video that the FBI put out, which was based on the Glenn Duffie Shriver case. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8xlUNK4JHQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8xlUNK4JHQ
    - schoen 12y ago
      Yep, that's the one, thanks.
- jacquesm 12y ago
  > I can neither confirm nor deny whether I have any actual experience with polygraph testing, or whether I know anyone who does. Pity, that just about negates your otherwise informative comment.
  - logfromblammo 12y ago
    That's somewhat of an insider joke about security clearances. (Though I can still neither confirm nor deny that I am an insider, or that I understand why the joke I just told may or may not be funny.) Pseudoanonymous people posting on the Internet can't be trusted anyway, right?
    - jacquesm 12y ago
      > Pseudoanonymous people posting on the Internet can't be trusted anyway, right? Not all of them. But I'll make an exception for you ;)

That doesn't stop the NSA from doing them. I applied to work for the NSA as a mathematician in 2007-8 and went through two separate trips to Fort Meade and two separate polygraphs.

logfromblammo 12y ago

It's not about collecting or verifying information. The goal of the exercise is to make you fearful, intimidated, and compliant, and to reinforce the government's dominance over you. The polygraph is just a prop. The examiner is the one really measuring you. Even if your saint's halo is still slightly visible at noon on a sunny day, you will always be given the impression that you barely passed. So it hardly matters that a polygraph is pseudoscience, because the placebo effect is real. If you think you're being objectively measured by a machine, instead of subjectively judged by a man, that makes his job simpler. Otherwise, it's Iocaine Powder. (I can neither confirm nor deny whether I have any actual experience with polygraph testing, or whether I know anyone who does.)

schoen 12y ago
I remember seeing a U.S. government counterintelligence film (maybe linked from HN?) meant to discourage people, especially exchange students, from being recruited as assets of Chinese spy agencies. It was based on a true story in which an American was recruited and then applied for a clearance at the instigation of his foreign contacts. In the film, he was caught as a result of failing a polygraph: when uncomfortable questions arise during the examination, he asks to discontinue it and withdraw his application, and they don't let him get away with that; they end up prosecuting him and he pleads guilty to espionage charges. I couldn't help thinking that the polygraph might have worked in that situation mainly because he believed it would! Edit: maybe this also belongs in http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ClapYourHandsIfYouBelieve http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ClapYourHandsIfYo...
- csandreasen 12y ago
  I think you're referring to the 'Game of Pawns' video that the FBI put out, which was based on the Glenn Duffie Shriver case. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8xlUNK4JHQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8xlUNK4JHQ
  - schoen 12y ago
    Yep, that's the one, thanks.
jacquesm 12y ago
> I can neither confirm nor deny whether I have any actual experience with polygraph testing, or whether I know anyone who does. Pity, that just about negates your otherwise informative comment.
- logfromblammo 12y ago
  That's somewhat of an insider joke about security clearances. (Though I can still neither confirm nor deny that I am an insider, or that I understand why the joke I just told may or may not be funny.) Pseudoanonymous people posting on the Internet can't be trusted anyway, right?
  - jacquesm 12y ago
    > Pseudoanonymous people posting on the Internet can't be trusted anyway, right? Not all of them. But I'll make an exception for you ;)