5 ms·

It's just sleazy that all of their advertising is centered on how the keyboard differentiates the device from other tablets and then the keyboard isn't included

It's just sleazy that all of their advertising is centered on how the keyboard differentiates the device from other tablets and then the keyboard isn't included in the base price.

Someone1234 12y ago
I strongly agree with this. The keyboard is great. Having a choice of keyboards is also great. However Microsoft makes the keyboard a core part of this device (both literally, and in adverts) so to me there should be no scenario where it doesn't ship with one. They should just set the price at $599 and include the keyboard. At least it is an "out the door" price then, not $500 with a hidden $100 tack-on.
- joshuapants 12y ago
  I believe the idea behind not including it is that you can choose the color of your keyboard without them having to anticipate demand for certain colors and package them together. I don't think that's a very good rationalization (just give them an option for keyboard color and ship a second box!), however.
  - seunosewa 12y ago
    Nobody needs colored keyboards. The keyboard color should just match the device it's made for.
    - joshuapants 12y ago
      I'm kind of dumbfounded by this. People like personalized goods, this is no different from picking a colored iPad case or wanting your car in some color other than Ford Black.
    - vacri 12y ago
      Nobody needs colored keyboards. You can make this argument all the way down to basic sustenance, healthcare, and shelter. No-one needs more than those things.
- flinty 12y ago
  At the very least Microsoft should include some base level keyboard with the device and keep an upgrade available.
- georgemcbay 12y ago
  Seems like they are damned if they do, damned if they don't. They attempted to make the Kinect sensor a core part of the Xbox One (including making it central in their advertising, etc) but eventually bowed to pressure to unbundle it in order to sell a $100-cheaper SKU.
  - joshuapants 12y ago
    A keyboard is a bit more fundamental to a computing experience than a hardly-used peripheral is to a gaming experience.
    - WorldWideWayne 12y ago
      Not at all because these are tablet computers. I own a few of them and I can honestly say that I only use the keyboard when I'm sitting at a desk with it...and the keyboard I use there is an MS Natural keyboard. If I travel, I take my Typecover with me, but I mostly work at home.
      - joshuapants 12y ago
        I don't entirely disagree, but my point was that it's a lot harder to use a computer without a physical keyboard/mouse than it is to use an Xbox without a Kinect. You can certainly use a Surface with no type cover, but even in Modern IE and other apps I prefer to type with a hardware keyboard. Let me put it this way: by having a computer (even if it has a tablet form factor, it is a Real Computer) without a mouse/keyboard, you give up half its potential (if not more, depending on how you use it). By having an Xbox without a Kinect you give up none of its core capabilities, just some of its extra navigational features and a distinct minority of exclusive games.
        WorldWideWayne 12y ago
        It depends on how you work, so I disagree that you always lose the core functionality. I could totally go without the type cover if I wanted to because I just don't travel much. As a matter of fact, I think when the Surface Pro 4 comes out, I will not buy the type cover and take the savings instead. In any case, I really, really disagree that Microsoft is being sleazy by offering a choice. It's more like they're going all-in on the idea that you can use all of Windows without a physical keyboard.
patja 12y ago
What's puzzling is that in the "what's in the box" section of the product page, which is where I look for this kind of "gotcha", there is no mention or photo of the stylus being included. I'm sure it is, but it seems like a colossal marketing oversight to not explicitly state that the pen is included in the box. And in the tech specs it states there is support for the surface pen...but again nothing about a pen being part of the tech specs. http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/productID.314885500 http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/productI...
- Goronmon 12y ago
  I would assume that one of the pens would not be included then. Because it's specifically spelled out (and shown) as being included in the Surface 3 Pro.
  - chton 12y ago
    That is the case. All the way at the bottom of that page: [6] Surface Pen sold separately.
  - vezycash 12y ago
    The announcement page says pen wouldn't be included.
- ovis 12y ago
  The pre-order page explicitly states that the stylus is not included. Tricky marketing!
- fencepost 12y ago
  It'll work with a finger or generic capacitive stylus just not be as accurate. Since they support both modes, they can leave the relatively expensive stylus out.
flinty 12y ago
My first thoughts as well. All the marketing images of the product have the screen connected to the keyboard but the keyboard isn't included.
higherpurpose 12y ago
Yes, this has always bothered me, too. "Checkout the new Surface - it's only $500 just like the iPad, but unlike the iPad it comes with a keyboard, too! Oh btw, you actually have to pay $130 more for the keyboard."

It's just sleazy that all of their advertising is centered on how the keyboard differentiates the device from other tablets and then the keyboard isn't included in the base price.

Someone1234 12y ago

I strongly agree with this. The keyboard is great. Having a choice of keyboards is also great. However Microsoft makes the keyboard a core part of this device (both literally, and in adverts) so to me there should be no scenario where it doesn't ship with one. They should just set the price at $599 and include the keyboard. At least it is an "out the door" price then, not $500 with a hidden $100 tack-on.

joshuapants 12y ago
I believe the idea behind not including it is that you can choose the color of your keyboard without them having to anticipate demand for certain colors and package them together. I don't think that's a very good rationalization (just give them an option for keyboard color and ship a second box!), however.
- seunosewa 12y ago
  Nobody needs colored keyboards. The keyboard color should just match the device it's made for.
  - joshuapants 12y ago
    I'm kind of dumbfounded by this. People like personalized goods, this is no different from picking a colored iPad case or wanting your car in some color other than Ford Black.
  - vacri 12y ago
    Nobody needs colored keyboards. You can make this argument all the way down to basic sustenance, healthcare, and shelter. No-one needs more than those things.
flinty 12y ago
At the very least Microsoft should include some base level keyboard with the device and keep an upgrade available.
georgemcbay 12y ago
Seems like they are damned if they do, damned if they don't. They attempted to make the Kinect sensor a core part of the Xbox One (including making it central in their advertising, etc) but eventually bowed to pressure to unbundle it in order to sell a $100-cheaper SKU.
- joshuapants 12y ago
  A keyboard is a bit more fundamental to a computing experience than a hardly-used peripheral is to a gaming experience.
  - WorldWideWayne 12y ago
    Not at all because these are tablet computers. I own a few of them and I can honestly say that I only use the keyboard when I'm sitting at a desk with it...and the keyboard I use there is an MS Natural keyboard. If I travel, I take my Typecover with me, but I mostly work at home.
    - joshuapants 12y ago
      I don't entirely disagree, but my point was that it's a lot harder to use a computer without a physical keyboard/mouse than it is to use an Xbox without a Kinect. You can certainly use a Surface with no type cover, but even in Modern IE and other apps I prefer to type with a hardware keyboard. Let me put it this way: by having a computer (even if it has a tablet form factor, it is a Real Computer) without a mouse/keyboard, you give up half its potential (if not more, depending on how you use it). By having an Xbox without a Kinect you give up none of its core capabilities, just some of its extra navigational features and a distinct minority of exclusive games.
      - WorldWideWayne 12y ago
        It depends on how you work, so I disagree that you always lose the core functionality. I could totally go without the type cover if I wanted to because I just don't travel much. As a matter of fact, I think when the Surface Pro 4 comes out, I will not buy the type cover and take the savings instead. In any case, I really, really disagree that Microsoft is being sleazy by offering a choice. It's more like they're going all-in on the idea that you can use all of Windows without a physical keyboard.

patja 12y ago

What's puzzling is that in the "what's in the box" section of the product page, which is where I look for this kind of "gotcha", there is no mention or photo of the stylus being included. I'm sure it is, but it seems like a colossal marketing oversight to not explicitly state that the pen is included in the box. And in the tech specs it states there is support for the surface pen...but again nothing about a pen being part of the tech specs. http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/productID.314885500 http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/productI...

Goronmon 12y ago
I would assume that one of the pens would not be included then. Because it's specifically spelled out (and shown) as being included in the Surface 3 Pro.
- chton 12y ago
  That is the case. All the way at the bottom of that page: [6] Surface Pen sold separately.
- vezycash 12y ago
  The announcement page says pen wouldn't be included.
ovis 12y ago
The pre-order page explicitly states that the stylus is not included. Tricky marketing!
fencepost 12y ago
It'll work with a finger or generic capacitive stylus just not be as accurate. Since they support both modes, they can leave the relatively expensive stylus out.

flinty 12y ago

My first thoughts as well. All the marketing images of the product have the screen connected to the keyboard but the keyboard isn't included.

higherpurpose 12y ago

Yes, this has always bothered me, too. "Checkout the new Surface - it's only $500 just like the iPad, but unlike the iPad it comes with a keyboard, too! Oh btw, you actually have to pay $130 more for the keyboard."