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all at a very affordable price AWS really needs to get back in touch with reality. $500 USD/mo for a server with 32G Ram and 3x2T disks is not 'affordable', i

by moe 12y ago

all at a very affordable price AWS really needs to get back in touch with reality. $500 USD/mo for a server with 32G Ram and 3x2T disks is not 'affordable', it's a rip-off. For that money you can rent 10 machines of that size at Hetzner/OVH - and they will be dedicated hardware.

ranman 12y ago
That's the on demand pricing. You should check the math on reserved pricing and consider the TCO. Not saying you're wrong but it's at least important to accurately compare.
- fweespeech 12y ago
  Reserved pricing requires a year lock in. I can get something like that for about 40 Euros [and guaranteed 100mb/s on 1 gbit port] with no setup fee and no lock in beyond 30 days. Even with reserved pricing for 3 years its $5,715 = 5715/36 = ~$158/month + Bandwidth. The TCO with Amazon is only cheap when you have a very, very high variability in load. [e.g. Netflix]
  - GeechieCloud 12y ago
    Can you link to this deal for an instance with similar specs as the D2.xlarge for 40 a month? that sounds like a great deal and I don't need to host in the US, but this instance type is what I've been looking for.
    - moe 12y ago
      Soyoustart 16G/4T for $42: http://www.soyoustart.com/us/essential-servers/ http://www.soyoustart.com/us/essential-servers/ Soyoustart 8G/8T for $69: http://www.soyoustart.com/us/essential-servers/ http://www.soyoustart.com/us/essential-servers/ Soyoustart 96G/4T for $84: http://www.soyoustart.com/us/essential-servers/ http://www.soyoustart.com/us/essential-servers/ Hetzner EX40 32G/6T for $64: https://www.hetzner.de/hosting/produktmatrix/rootserver-produktmatrix-ex https://www.hetzner.de/hosting/produktmatrix/rootserver-prod... LeaseWeb 16G/4T for $58: https://www.leaseweb.com/bare-metal-server/configure/18403 https://www.leaseweb.com/bare-metal-server/configure/18403
      - toomuchtodo 12y ago
        Hello distributed computing. Command + control at AWS, the heavy lifting at $cheap_dedicated_server_of_the_month.
    - fweespeech 12y ago
      Moe already linked to some of them [ if you look at soyoustart.ie you can get the price in Euros ]. But honestly the best deal is generally: https://robot.your-server.de/order/market https://robot.your-server.de/order/market If you are patient, you can get it below 40 Euros there. I honestly tend to think of things at Hetzner's auction rates or Online.net's Specials because I can wait 30 days to add a new node because I use them for side projects. If you are willing to downgrade to a Xeon E3-1245V2, they have 2 nodes for sale that are otherwise identical. http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Xeon+E3-1245+V2+%40+3.40GHz http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Xeon+E3-1245+V... vs. http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Xeon+E5-2670+v3+%40+2.30GHz http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Xeon+E5-2670+v... Of course, since you can buy like 4 of these nodes vs. 1 Amazon EC2 one...even on a 3yr reserve...ya. Generally, per-node, EC2 has better per-core performance than what you can pick up in the "bargain market" but the fact you can pick up X:1 nodes guarantees it to be a non-issue.
- sciurus 12y ago
  Reserved pricing for that instance ranges from 1 year with $0 upfront and $293 a month (i.e. $3522 a year) to 3 years with $5195 upfront and $0 a month (i.e. $144 a month) http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/pricing/ http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/pricing/
ghshephard 12y ago
So, your position then is that Amazon is not using their size and market position to unfairly underprice the competition, and that there is still room to compete against them. I think that's a positive thing.
- beachstartup 12y ago
  > and that there is still room to compete against them the concept that there's no room to compete against the market mindshare incumbent is a marketer's wet dream. in other words, amazon does an amazingly effective job at marketing to people who think they aren't affected by marketing, and then get them to pay a massive premium to boot. they truly are geniuses in this regard.
- fweespeech 12y ago
  I don't think think that is what he is saying, or at least, I would have made a similar post if I had gotten here first. ;) You've basically got two groups of people: 1) Those who can capacity plan accurately and relatively stable capacity needs. For this group, Amazon is a complete and total rip off. There is a skill floor to this, admittedly, in the form of a sysadmin/devops fellow with years of experience. [Hint: A large fraction of the SaaS providers who use Amazon are likely in this group if they had someone who met the skill floor for this option. I'll admit it is a skill floor because they need to be able to deploy a 1 or 3 Datacenter HA configuration without someone holding their hand.] 2) Those who have highly variable loads [Netflix] and/or lack the necessary experienced DevOps/Sysadmin type who can do capacity planning.
berns 12y ago
It looks expensive when compared to OVH. But really everything is super expensive when compared to OVH. I mean, if you are paying more than $ 200 for cloud hosting, better just get a dedicated server at OVH. The comparison gets closer with Softlayer or other top tier dedicated hosting providers. On the other hand, AWS bandwidth is just expensive.
- fweespeech 12y ago
  It isn't just OVH although OVH/Hetzner/Online.net are the obvious examples. I can list something like 50 providers that can sell something like that [with 10TB of Bandwidth and/or 100mbit+ unmetered] for under the 3 year reserved price. http://ioflood.com/phoenix-dedicated-servers.php http://ioflood.com/phoenix-dedicated-servers.php
  - berns 12y ago
    I think that OVH is the third largest hosting provider in the world. Operates its own datacenters in North America and Europe. It's at the same scale as AWS. That's why it makes sense the comparison.
    - cedrickthecrow 12y ago
      Source for OVH? Amazon is truly massive in scale: http://www.enterprisetech.com/2014/11/14/rare-peek-massive-scale-aws/ http://www.enterprisetech.com/2014/11/14/rare-peek-massive-s...
      - moe 12y ago
        https://www.ovh.co.uk/aboutus/ovh-in-figures.xml https://www.ovh.co.uk/aboutus/ovh-in-figures.xml It's hard to get definite numbers from anyone, but they're all in about the same league. My personal guess would be that EC2 is much bigger than OVH in the US, while OVH is almost certainly bigger than EC2 in Europe.
      - berns 12y ago
        Wikipedia cites 180,000 servers in 17 datacenters in 2014. So, not exactly AWS scale, but still relevant for comparing.

by moe 12y ago

ranman 12y ago

That's the on demand pricing. You should check the math on reserved pricing and consider the TCO. Not saying you're wrong but it's at least important to accurately compare.

fweespeech 12y ago
Reserved pricing requires a year lock in. I can get something like that for about 40 Euros [and guaranteed 100mb/s on 1 gbit port] with no setup fee and no lock in beyond 30 days. Even with reserved pricing for 3 years its $5,715 = 5715/36 = ~$158/month + Bandwidth. The TCO with Amazon is only cheap when you have a very, very high variability in load. [e.g. Netflix]
- GeechieCloud 12y ago
  Can you link to this deal for an instance with similar specs as the D2.xlarge for 40 a month? that sounds like a great deal and I don't need to host in the US, but this instance type is what I've been looking for.
  - moe 12y ago
    Soyoustart 16G/4T for $42: http://www.soyoustart.com/us/essential-servers/ http://www.soyoustart.com/us/essential-servers/ Soyoustart 8G/8T for $69: http://www.soyoustart.com/us/essential-servers/ http://www.soyoustart.com/us/essential-servers/ Soyoustart 96G/4T for $84: http://www.soyoustart.com/us/essential-servers/ http://www.soyoustart.com/us/essential-servers/ Hetzner EX40 32G/6T for $64: https://www.hetzner.de/hosting/produktmatrix/rootserver-produktmatrix-ex https://www.hetzner.de/hosting/produktmatrix/rootserver-prod... LeaseWeb 16G/4T for $58: https://www.leaseweb.com/bare-metal-server/configure/18403 https://www.leaseweb.com/bare-metal-server/configure/18403
    - toomuchtodo 12y ago
      Hello distributed computing. Command + control at AWS, the heavy lifting at $cheap_dedicated_server_of_the_month.
  - fweespeech 12y ago
    Moe already linked to some of them [ if you look at soyoustart.ie you can get the price in Euros ]. But honestly the best deal is generally: https://robot.your-server.de/order/market https://robot.your-server.de/order/market If you are patient, you can get it below 40 Euros there. I honestly tend to think of things at Hetzner's auction rates or Online.net's Specials because I can wait 30 days to add a new node because I use them for side projects. If you are willing to downgrade to a Xeon E3-1245V2, they have 2 nodes for sale that are otherwise identical. http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Xeon+E3-1245+V2+%40+3.40GHz http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Xeon+E3-1245+V... vs. http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Xeon+E5-2670+v3+%40+2.30GHz http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Xeon+E5-2670+v... Of course, since you can buy like 4 of these nodes vs. 1 Amazon EC2 one...even on a 3yr reserve...ya. Generally, per-node, EC2 has better per-core performance than what you can pick up in the "bargain market" but the fact you can pick up X:1 nodes guarantees it to be a non-issue.
sciurus 12y ago
Reserved pricing for that instance ranges from 1 year with $0 upfront and $293 a month (i.e. $3522 a year) to 3 years with $5195 upfront and $0 a month (i.e. $144 a month) http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/pricing/ http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/pricing/

ghshephard 12y ago

So, your position then is that Amazon is not using their size and market position to unfairly underprice the competition, and that there is still room to compete against them. I think that's a positive thing.

beachstartup 12y ago
> and that there is still room to compete against them the concept that there's no room to compete against the market mindshare incumbent is a marketer's wet dream. in other words, amazon does an amazingly effective job at marketing to people who think they aren't affected by marketing, and then get them to pay a massive premium to boot. they truly are geniuses in this regard.
fweespeech 12y ago
I don't think think that is what he is saying, or at least, I would have made a similar post if I had gotten here first. ;) You've basically got two groups of people: 1) Those who can capacity plan accurately and relatively stable capacity needs. For this group, Amazon is a complete and total rip off. There is a skill floor to this, admittedly, in the form of a sysadmin/devops fellow with years of experience. [Hint: A large fraction of the SaaS providers who use Amazon are likely in this group if they had someone who met the skill floor for this option. I'll admit it is a skill floor because they need to be able to deploy a 1 or 3 Datacenter HA configuration without someone holding their hand.] 2) Those who have highly variable loads [Netflix] and/or lack the necessary experienced DevOps/Sysadmin type who can do capacity planning.

berns 12y ago

It looks expensive when compared to OVH. But really everything is super expensive when compared to OVH. I mean, if you are paying more than $ 200 for cloud hosting, better just get a dedicated server at OVH. The comparison gets closer with Softlayer or other top tier dedicated hosting providers. On the other hand, AWS bandwidth is just expensive.

fweespeech 12y ago
It isn't just OVH although OVH/Hetzner/Online.net are the obvious examples. I can list something like 50 providers that can sell something like that [with 10TB of Bandwidth and/or 100mbit+ unmetered] for under the 3 year reserved price. http://ioflood.com/phoenix-dedicated-servers.php http://ioflood.com/phoenix-dedicated-servers.php
- berns 12y ago
  I think that OVH is the third largest hosting provider in the world. Operates its own datacenters in North America and Europe. It's at the same scale as AWS. That's why it makes sense the comparison.
  - cedrickthecrow 12y ago
    Source for OVH? Amazon is truly massive in scale: http://www.enterprisetech.com/2014/11/14/rare-peek-massive-scale-aws/ http://www.enterprisetech.com/2014/11/14/rare-peek-massive-s...
    - moe 12y ago
      https://www.ovh.co.uk/aboutus/ovh-in-figures.xml https://www.ovh.co.uk/aboutus/ovh-in-figures.xml It's hard to get definite numbers from anyone, but they're all in about the same league. My personal guess would be that EC2 is much bigger than OVH in the US, while OVH is almost certainly bigger than EC2 in Europe.
    - berns 12y ago
      Wikipedia cites 180,000 servers in 17 datacenters in 2014. So, not exactly AWS scale, but still relevant for comparing.