4 ms·

That's not a very convincing line of reasoning at all. It's just the classic "there are starving children in Africa" slippery slope argument. What happened to s

by nilkn 12y ago

That's not a very convincing line of reasoning at all. It's just the classic "there are starving children in Africa" slippery slope argument. What happened to striving for better? There's nothing wrong with that. Worse, it seems to unfairly distort things as well. On what basis have you concluded that this person thinks he's better than people from India? And I think except for a few bullet points he's not asking for much that isn't pretty normal in the US. My first job out of college satisfied bullet points 1,2,3,4,5,6,8,10,11,12A,14,15,16,17,18,19,20. I left out most of the equity-based ones simply because the company didn't do equity. I left off 7 even though we had very flexible hours. They just weren't so flexible that you could work at night.

jordigh 12y ago
That's not what a slippery slope argument is. I am not arguing that some event must follow inevitably from the other without presenting an argument for why this follows. Anyway, what bugs me so much is the entitlement. Sure, maybe you can find a job like that. But what makes you think that you deserve it? And yes, there is a problem with being entitled. The world is already too full of selfish assholes. I really would not want to work with someone who is looking for so many reasons to be unhappy with a job.
- Retra 12y ago
  >I really would not want to work with someone who is looking for so many reasons to be unhappy with a job. So much entitlement... I highly suspect your measurement of "too much entitlement" is a matter of your own jealousy.
  - jordigh 12y ago
    Let me rephrase: being around such a person would probably rub me the wrong way, but I wouldn't refuse to work in a company with assholes, because every company has an unpleasant person once in a while. Jealousy? Of what? Of wanting too much?
    - Retra 12y ago
      Jealousy as in "X is 'entitlement' if I want X, but do not anticipate having the ability to get it." Because if you simply didn't want X, it would just be a matter of taste. So instead, you think it is unreasonable to want X, as you don't think anyone should have it before you unless they are to take some kind of social penalty.
    - MCRed 12y ago
      Every item on my list is a red flag that the company is poorly managed. Poorly managed startups are less likely to succeed, and thus more likely to waste my time and not pay me for it (if the equity becomes worthless.) You can call that entitled, I call it experienced enough not to be a sucker. That you think I'm an asshole for listing red flags that indicate systemic problems in companies, in my opinion, reveals more about yourself than me.
- nilkn 12y ago
  I suppose I really don't understand your argument. You're suggesting that someone in a position to strive for more shouldn't do so because there are other people who aren't in such a position? If nobody tries to raise the standard, then it will never be raised. Based on his other posts, this guy is the CTO of a small startup. Maybe in a year or two he'll be hiring and providing these benefits to others. How's that a bad thing? I understand being turned off by entitlement. But, really, calling the guy who's advocating for better environments for workers and employees an asshole seems backwards. If we're going to call anyone an asshole, surely it would be the people fighting in the opposite direction. I think you're taking for granted the centuries of work that it's taken to get even to where we are now. Read about what working conditions were like a century ago or more. Go read about the horrors of being a chimney sweep. We don't have to endure that sort of treatment anymore because people were entitled and whiny and constantly strove for better conditions. Let's do the same for those who will follow us another 200 years from now. Also, whoever is going on a downvote spree on everyone here, I invite you to simply enter the discussion instead. I've downvoted nobody.
  - jordigh 12y ago
    That's the thing, our jobs are already super easy and super low-risk compared to the chimney sweeps of yester year. We sit down and just write stuff down on a computer. There's no heavy lifting, no angry foremen, lots of job security, frequently there's even some time for personal projects on the job... everything is already mostly awesome. We have already achieved a society of leisure. It already is the future. We do almost no work. Most things are automated and easy. We already have George Jetson's job. And despite all of this, no, not enough, now we must campaign for no more than 2 mandatory meetings per year?
  - ctvo 12y ago
    The problem with the list is the attitude. I would rather not work with people who have lists like this. I'm not a special snowflake. I like solving problems and doing meaningful work that contributes to the well being of others in some way. Those are my only requirements. Everything else is flexible. And the list reads like a tour rider (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rider_%28theater%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rider_%28theater%29), not some attempt at advancing worker's rights.

by nilkn 12y ago

jordigh 12y ago

That's not what a slippery slope argument is. I am not arguing that some event must follow inevitably from the other without presenting an argument for why this follows. Anyway, what bugs me so much is the entitlement. Sure, maybe you can find a job like that. But what makes you think that you deserve it? And yes, there is a problem with being entitled. The world is already too full of selfish assholes. I really would not want to work with someone who is looking for so many reasons to be unhappy with a job.

Retra 12y ago
>I really would not want to work with someone who is looking for so many reasons to be unhappy with a job. So much entitlement... I highly suspect your measurement of "too much entitlement" is a matter of your own jealousy.
- jordigh 12y ago
  Let me rephrase: being around such a person would probably rub me the wrong way, but I wouldn't refuse to work in a company with assholes, because every company has an unpleasant person once in a while. Jealousy? Of what? Of wanting too much?
  - Retra 12y ago
    Jealousy as in "X is 'entitlement' if I want X, but do not anticipate having the ability to get it." Because if you simply didn't want X, it would just be a matter of taste. So instead, you think it is unreasonable to want X, as you don't think anyone should have it before you unless they are to take some kind of social penalty.
  - MCRed 12y ago
    Every item on my list is a red flag that the company is poorly managed. Poorly managed startups are less likely to succeed, and thus more likely to waste my time and not pay me for it (if the equity becomes worthless.) You can call that entitled, I call it experienced enough not to be a sucker. That you think I'm an asshole for listing red flags that indicate systemic problems in companies, in my opinion, reveals more about yourself than me.
nilkn 12y ago
I suppose I really don't understand your argument. You're suggesting that someone in a position to strive for more shouldn't do so because there are other people who aren't in such a position? If nobody tries to raise the standard, then it will never be raised. Based on his other posts, this guy is the CTO of a small startup. Maybe in a year or two he'll be hiring and providing these benefits to others. How's that a bad thing? I understand being turned off by entitlement. But, really, calling the guy who's advocating for better environments for workers and employees an asshole seems backwards. If we're going to call anyone an asshole, surely it would be the people fighting in the opposite direction. I think you're taking for granted the centuries of work that it's taken to get even to where we are now. Read about what working conditions were like a century ago or more. Go read about the horrors of being a chimney sweep. We don't have to endure that sort of treatment anymore because people were entitled and whiny and constantly strove for better conditions. Let's do the same for those who will follow us another 200 years from now. Also, whoever is going on a downvote spree on everyone here, I invite you to simply enter the discussion instead. I've downvoted nobody.
- jordigh 12y ago
  That's the thing, our jobs are already super easy and super low-risk compared to the chimney sweeps of yester year. We sit down and just write stuff down on a computer. There's no heavy lifting, no angry foremen, lots of job security, frequently there's even some time for personal projects on the job... everything is already mostly awesome. We have already achieved a society of leisure. It already is the future. We do almost no work. Most things are automated and easy. We already have George Jetson's job. And despite all of this, no, not enough, now we must campaign for no more than 2 mandatory meetings per year?
- ctvo 12y ago
  The problem with the list is the attitude. I would rather not work with people who have lists like this. I'm not a special snowflake. I like solving problems and doing meaningful work that contributes to the well being of others in some way. Those are my only requirements. Everything else is flexible. And the list reads like a tour rider (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rider_%28theater%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rider_%28theater%29), not some attempt at advancing worker's rights.