4 ms·

Really? All of this is on your list? If I asked for 3 mandatory meetings a year you're NEVER going to work at my company? How do you go through life being so r

by ctvo 12y ago

Really? All of this is on your list? If I asked for 3 mandatory meetings a year you're NEVER going to work at my company? How do you go through life being so rigid on such relatively trivial issues?

jordigh 12y ago
Yeah, no kidding. I started thinking, "What makes you so fucking cool and unique to deserve all of this? Have you seen what people in India have to put up with to get a tech job? Why do you consider yourself better than them?"
- nilkn 12y ago
  That's not a very convincing line of reasoning at all. It's just the classic "there are starving children in Africa" slippery slope argument. What happened to striving for better? There's nothing wrong with that. Worse, it seems to unfairly distort things as well. On what basis have you concluded that this person thinks he's better than people from India? And I think except for a few bullet points he's not asking for much that isn't pretty normal in the US. My first job out of college satisfied bullet points 1,2,3,4,5,6,8,10,11,12A,14,15,16,17,18,19,20. I left out most of the equity-based ones simply because the company didn't do equity. I left off 7 even though we had very flexible hours. They just weren't so flexible that you could work at night.
  - jordigh 12y ago
    That's not what a slippery slope argument is. I am not arguing that some event must follow inevitably from the other without presenting an argument for why this follows. Anyway, what bugs me so much is the entitlement. Sure, maybe you can find a job like that. But what makes you think that you deserve it? And yes, there is a problem with being entitled. The world is already too full of selfish assholes. I really would not want to work with someone who is looking for so many reasons to be unhappy with a job.
    - Retra 12y ago
      >I really would not want to work with someone who is looking for so many reasons to be unhappy with a job. So much entitlement... I highly suspect your measurement of "too much entitlement" is a matter of your own jealousy.
      - jordigh 12y ago
        Let me rephrase: being around such a person would probably rub me the wrong way, but I wouldn't refuse to work in a company with assholes, because every company has an unpleasant person once in a while. Jealousy? Of what? Of wanting too much?
        Retra 12y ago
        Jealousy as in "X is 'entitlement' if I want X, but do not anticipate having the ability to get it." Because if you simply didn't want X, it would just be a matter of taste. So instead, you think it is unreasonable to want X, as you don't think anyone should have it before you unless they are to take some kind of social penalty.
        MCRed 12y ago
        Every item on my list is a red flag that the company is poorly managed. Poorly managed startups are less likely to succeed, and thus more likely to waste my time and not pay me for it (if the equity becomes worthless.) You can call that entitled, I call it experienced enough not to be a sucker. That you think I'm an asshole for listing red flags that indicate systemic problems in companies, in my opinion, reveals more about yourself than me.
    - nilkn 12y ago
      I suppose I really don't understand your argument. You're suggesting that someone in a position to strive for more shouldn't do so because there are other people who aren't in such a position? If nobody tries to raise the standard, then it will never be raised. Based on his other posts, this guy is the CTO of a small startup. Maybe in a year or two he'll be hiring and providing these benefits to others. How's that a bad thing? I understand being turned off by entitlement. But, really, calling the guy who's advocating for better environments for workers and employees an asshole seems backwards. If we're going to call anyone an asshole, surely it would be the people fighting in the opposite direction. I think you're taking for granted the centuries of work that it's taken to get even to where we are now. Read about what working conditions were like a century ago or more. Go read about the horrors of being a chimney sweep. We don't have to endure that sort of treatment anymore because people were entitled and whiny and constantly strove for better conditions. Let's do the same for those who will follow us another 200 years from now. Also, whoever is going on a downvote spree on everyone here, I invite you to simply enter the discussion instead. I've downvoted nobody.
- Retra 12y ago
  Why do you think you don't deserve that?
  - jordigh 12y ago
    Maybe I do, maybe I don't, but I'm not demanding all of that crap for a job. My demand is more modest: any job I take must not contribute to the proliferation of non-free software and the company I work for must not attempt to control or mistreat its customers. And if I can't find such a job, I'll work as a waiter. Beyond that, having enough of a salary to live on is all a person really needs. Having such an inflexible laundry list of demands just ends up making a person unhappy. I bet there are more hidden demands beyond this list. This just reeks of bad attitude, selfishness, and entitlement. The happiest people are those who desire the least.
    - Retra 12y ago
      Those who desire the least will tend to get it. And I don't think "the least" is in any way an accurate description of what you have or want.
    - MCRed 12y ago
      You just ruled out far more companies, and for far more arbitrary reasons-- eg: you want to get paid but you won't let any company you work for sell software in order to pay you. You're far more inflexible than I am.
      - jordigh 12y ago
        Lots of free software is sold. I didn't say the software couldn't be sold. I didn't mean without a price. I meant without restriction and without control. I will not work at a company that mistreats its customers. A license manager, software whose purpose is to inhibit the use of another piece of software, is an example of such abuse. Having been on the receiving end of such abuse, my condition is to not force that abuse on anyone else.
jacquesm 12y ago
> How do you go through life being so rigid on such relatively trivial issues? At a guess: after spending enough of that life to realize that those 'trivial' issues can make all the difference between feeling good in the longer term or feeling miserable.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
MCRed 12y ago
If the meetings are worth my time, they wouldn't need to be made mandatory. I'll happily show up to relevant useful, worthwhile meetings. Making a meeting mandatory is a big red flag that the meeting is a waste of time.

by ctvo 12y ago

Really? All of this is on your list? If I asked for 3 mandatory meetings a year you're NEVER going to work at my company? How do you go through life being so rigid on such relatively trivial issues?

jordigh 12y ago

Yeah, no kidding. I started thinking, "What makes you so fucking cool and unique to deserve all of this? Have you seen what people in India have to put up with to get a tech job? Why do you consider yourself better than them?"

nilkn 12y ago
That's not a very convincing line of reasoning at all. It's just the classic "there are starving children in Africa" slippery slope argument. What happened to striving for better? There's nothing wrong with that. Worse, it seems to unfairly distort things as well. On what basis have you concluded that this person thinks he's better than people from India? And I think except for a few bullet points he's not asking for much that isn't pretty normal in the US. My first job out of college satisfied bullet points 1,2,3,4,5,6,8,10,11,12A,14,15,16,17,18,19,20. I left out most of the equity-based ones simply because the company didn't do equity. I left off 7 even though we had very flexible hours. They just weren't so flexible that you could work at night.
- jordigh 12y ago
  That's not what a slippery slope argument is. I am not arguing that some event must follow inevitably from the other without presenting an argument for why this follows. Anyway, what bugs me so much is the entitlement. Sure, maybe you can find a job like that. But what makes you think that you deserve it? And yes, there is a problem with being entitled. The world is already too full of selfish assholes. I really would not want to work with someone who is looking for so many reasons to be unhappy with a job.
  - Retra 12y ago
    >I really would not want to work with someone who is looking for so many reasons to be unhappy with a job. So much entitlement... I highly suspect your measurement of "too much entitlement" is a matter of your own jealousy.
    - jordigh 12y ago
      Let me rephrase: being around such a person would probably rub me the wrong way, but I wouldn't refuse to work in a company with assholes, because every company has an unpleasant person once in a while. Jealousy? Of what? Of wanting too much?
      - Retra 12y ago
        Jealousy as in "X is 'entitlement' if I want X, but do not anticipate having the ability to get it." Because if you simply didn't want X, it would just be a matter of taste. So instead, you think it is unreasonable to want X, as you don't think anyone should have it before you unless they are to take some kind of social penalty.
      - MCRed 12y ago
        Every item on my list is a red flag that the company is poorly managed. Poorly managed startups are less likely to succeed, and thus more likely to waste my time and not pay me for it (if the equity becomes worthless.) You can call that entitled, I call it experienced enough not to be a sucker. That you think I'm an asshole for listing red flags that indicate systemic problems in companies, in my opinion, reveals more about yourself than me.
  - nilkn 12y ago
    I suppose I really don't understand your argument. You're suggesting that someone in a position to strive for more shouldn't do so because there are other people who aren't in such a position? If nobody tries to raise the standard, then it will never be raised. Based on his other posts, this guy is the CTO of a small startup. Maybe in a year or two he'll be hiring and providing these benefits to others. How's that a bad thing? I understand being turned off by entitlement. But, really, calling the guy who's advocating for better environments for workers and employees an asshole seems backwards. If we're going to call anyone an asshole, surely it would be the people fighting in the opposite direction. I think you're taking for granted the centuries of work that it's taken to get even to where we are now. Read about what working conditions were like a century ago or more. Go read about the horrors of being a chimney sweep. We don't have to endure that sort of treatment anymore because people were entitled and whiny and constantly strove for better conditions. Let's do the same for those who will follow us another 200 years from now. Also, whoever is going on a downvote spree on everyone here, I invite you to simply enter the discussion instead. I've downvoted nobody.
Retra 12y ago
Why do you think you don't deserve that?
- jordigh 12y ago
  Maybe I do, maybe I don't, but I'm not demanding all of that crap for a job. My demand is more modest: any job I take must not contribute to the proliferation of non-free software and the company I work for must not attempt to control or mistreat its customers. And if I can't find such a job, I'll work as a waiter. Beyond that, having enough of a salary to live on is all a person really needs. Having such an inflexible laundry list of demands just ends up making a person unhappy. I bet there are more hidden demands beyond this list. This just reeks of bad attitude, selfishness, and entitlement. The happiest people are those who desire the least.
  - Retra 12y ago
    Those who desire the least will tend to get it. And I don't think "the least" is in any way an accurate description of what you have or want.
  - MCRed 12y ago
    You just ruled out far more companies, and for far more arbitrary reasons-- eg: you want to get paid but you won't let any company you work for sell software in order to pay you. You're far more inflexible than I am.
    - jordigh 12y ago
      Lots of free software is sold. I didn't say the software couldn't be sold. I didn't mean without a price. I meant without restriction and without control. I will not work at a company that mistreats its customers. A license manager, software whose purpose is to inhibit the use of another piece of software, is an example of such abuse. Having been on the receiving end of such abuse, my condition is to not force that abuse on anyone else.

jacquesm 12y ago

> How do you go through life being so rigid on such relatively trivial issues? At a guess: after spending enough of that life to realize that those 'trivial' issues can make all the difference between feeling good in the longer term or feeling miserable.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

MCRed 12y ago

If the meetings are worth my time, they wouldn't need to be made mandatory. I'll happily show up to relevant useful, worthwhile meetings. Making a meeting mandatory is a big red flag that the meeting is a waste of time.