6 ms·

It will be interesting to see how millennials preferences change once they have kids. I lived for a few years in a large city without a car, and loved it. How

It will be interesting to see how millennials preferences change once they have kids. I lived for a few years in a large city without a car, and loved it. However, once you have kids, things change. Kids often have lots of accessories that you don't want to be dragging around with you everywhere (stroller, diaper bag, toys, books, etc). A car is a great place to store those. Kids also result in more multi-stop trips that aren't necessarily on the Metro lines. I think millennials probably won't adopt their parents' car-based solutions to these problems, but what they do choose will be different than what they're choosing now.

jchrisa 12y ago
We sold our cars and moved (back) to Portland. Kids much prefer being in a cargo bike than in a car.
mason240 12y ago
Yes. It always seems like these analyses of millennials don't account for our delay in starting a family compared to past generations. Certainly a generation living like man-children for the entirety of our 20s before starting a family will have lasting impacts on our outlook, but I predict that in 5 years we see most millennials transitioning into being the suburban boomers they all hate. I'm 31, right on the leading edge of millennials and I have been seeing it among people my age for several years now (partially because of the coincidence with economic recovery).
acketon 12y ago
It's not just he car... most of these cities are not affordable to live in when you have kids. A 1 or 2 bedroom is fine for a young & single worker or a young couple. But bigger apartments have been converted into dorm style living in many cases since rents have shot through the roof. Many cities like Boston, NY and SF are trying to add affordable housing but that seems to be either a few units for very low income people or micro-units that are just a couple hundred square feet. Unless you make a huge amount of money I think most families get pushed to the suburbs to try to find somewhere they can afford to live. I'd like to see better designed suburbs that combine dense larger housing with public transit to connect the suburb communities with each other and the city they encircle. We need a size of home between the micro-apartment and the 2 million dollar mini mansion. I'd love to be able to take public transit into Boston from my place in the suburbs but train stations only have a few dozen parking spots and the bus service is limited to the city areas. So I drive for now.
- jseliger 12y ago
  most of these cities are not affordable to live in when you have kids This, however, is primarily a policy choice: http://www.amazon.com/Rent-Too-Damn-High-Matters-ebook/dp/B0078XGJXO http://www.amazon.com/Rent-Too-Damn-High-Matters-ebook/dp/B0... . I'd like to see better designed suburbs that combine dense larger housing with public transit to connect the suburb communities with each other and the city they encircle Me too. But suburbs have all the political veto problems described at the link above, but worse.
- secabeen 12y ago
  >I'd like to see better designed suburbs that combine dense larger housing with public transit to connect the suburb communities with each other and the city they encircle. This is a good point. Even if we increase public transit, almost all of these plans only improve connectivity between the suburb and downtown. When you need to get from one suburb to another to see a friend from work or school, that can take hours, even if both families are close to transit. Increased options between suburbs is important too.
rayiner 12y ago
When my wife and I lived in the NYC suburbs with our infant, we never drove my car. Who wants to wake a sleeping baby to get her in and out of a car seat when you can just walk into the train with her stroller? But in New York, even in the suburbs, you can get everywhere you need to go on the train. The bigger problem is schools. Big city public school districts are a total disaster. Though not for any inherent fact of geography, just politics and demographics.
- prawn 12y ago
  Plus the stroller serves as an easy way to store books, bottles, snacks, etc while walking.
  - sarabeckwith 12y ago
    Many public transport options have rules against open strollers. It'd be a pretty big pain to take sleeping baby out, fold up stroller, then clamber onto a bus. I guess a subway would be different, but still probably has the same rule somewhere.
    - rayiner 12y ago
      Open strollers are okay I'm Chicago, both on trains and buses. They're okay I'm the DC Metro, NYC subway, and Metro North. They're ok on the DC circulator but not DC buses.
    - prawn 12y ago
      I'll keep an eye out for those rules - wasn't aware. About to visit the US for 8 weeks with a toddler and a baby, so we have our work cut out for us getting around. I've done it many times when travelling in Europe (though with one baby). Unless the stroller is overloaded, you can kinda fold it up awkwardly in the event that the carriage is quite full. I've taken full luggage, a stroller and a baby on the Paris metro in peak hour. Never again!
      - delg 12y ago
metaphorm 12y ago
humans have been dealing with babies since long before the invention of cars. maybe its not such a good thing that we haul around so much child-paraphernalia that we can't even carry it without a freight wagon. also consider that it might not be such a great thing for a parent to become a glorified chauffeur for their children. something is out of balance with the suburban lifestyle. there is an awful lot of driving around, with your kids in the backseat, in a big hurry to get to the next place to spend money on some junk for your kid.
- secabeen 12y ago
  Humans also had lots more kids and invested less in each one because they died frequently. When we only have 1-3 kids rather than 6-10 (of which 4 live to adulthood), it makes sense to put more energy into improving the ability of each one. It's not always some place to spend money. It can be the park that you're meeting your kid's best friend at, or the natural history museum you go to every day after school, or just your friend's house or the field that your soccer practice meets at. Sure, you can stay in the area within a few miles of your home/school and get around exclusively by bike or walking, but lots of kids and parents want more than that.
epc 12y ago
Most of my Generation–X friends surprisingly stayed in their respective cities on having kids (almost all have had kids in their late 30s or early 40s). Combination of improved schools in NYC, improved living conditions, desire to not spend hours commuting, or to live in a walkable neighborhood. Even know a couple who moved to lower Manhattan from suburban Chicago (Naperville) entirely over walkability + livability vs. long commute times. One issue I rarely see addressed in these articles is how difficult we've made it to get a driver's license in the US. I started driving when I was 14 (rural midwest roads) and got a license within a month of turning 16. In contrast my cousins (early millenials or very late GenX) couldn't even get permits until they were 15 1/2 and had to drive for nearly 2 years under adult supervision before they could get a license. That has to have some sort of negative impact on the interest or desire to drive.
- rpcope1 12y ago
  It's funny that you bring up licensing being hard to get; sometimes I wonder if we're not actually (still) too lenient in who we give drivers licenses to. Maybe it's just that I'm past the point where my pre-frontal cortex is fully developed, but I can't imagine that continuing to tighten the training and requirements needed to get a license is a bad thing (and this is coming from someone who really enjoys his cars).
  - CalRobert 12y ago
    I tend to agree. It was interesting comparing the experience of getting a license in California in 2001: very few restrictions if you were 18, which I was, a laughably easy practical test with no training required, no waiting period after getting a permit - you could take the test the same day if there was a slot available; to getting one in Ireland in 2014 (12 hours of instruction required regardless of your age, must have had a permit (or foreign license) for at least 6 months, and a test with a 40% pass rate where you have to bring a standard transmission vehicle if you want to drive stick legally). Even after 13 years of driving, those 12 hours of training were actually pretty helpful. Not just for cleaning up bad habits, but for techniques I'd never properly learned in CA, like stick shift starts up steep hills with a stiff clutch. My city driving has improved as well.
restalis 12y ago
Millenial here. I have a kindergarten and a school (although I don't need it yet) in a walking distance. You may assume that that is a by-accident result, but it isn't! When it was the time to look a new place to stay in, having near-by a kindergarten, a school, a pharmacy store, a green park, and a lot of other smaller things were deemed as important. It's also important to understand that these things won't happen if are not asked for. In the rare cases when I absolutely need a car, I rent one. P.S.: I live in Europe.
panglott 12y ago
My sister ('81) and I ('79) both have 1 kid; I'm in a one-car household. Everyone told my sister she'd have to buy a car b/c of the baby, but she never has. We're not big cell-phone people either, I just hate being locked in a mobile refrigerator for hours. Not to mention that not having a car (or a second car) is just money in the pocket. We cycle instead, or carpool, use the bus. The bus is not a great option in a mid-sized city, but cycling is fine in inner-ring suburbs and downtown.

jchrisa 12y ago

We sold our cars and moved (back) to Portland. Kids much prefer being in a cargo bike than in a car.

mason240 12y ago

Yes. It always seems like these analyses of millennials don't account for our delay in starting a family compared to past generations. Certainly a generation living like man-children for the entirety of our 20s before starting a family will have lasting impacts on our outlook, but I predict that in 5 years we see most millennials transitioning into being the suburban boomers they all hate. I'm 31, right on the leading edge of millennials and I have been seeing it among people my age for several years now (partially because of the coincidence with economic recovery).

acketon 12y ago

It's not just he car... most of these cities are not affordable to live in when you have kids. A 1 or 2 bedroom is fine for a young & single worker or a young couple. But bigger apartments have been converted into dorm style living in many cases since rents have shot through the roof. Many cities like Boston, NY and SF are trying to add affordable housing but that seems to be either a few units for very low income people or micro-units that are just a couple hundred square feet. Unless you make a huge amount of money I think most families get pushed to the suburbs to try to find somewhere they can afford to live. I'd like to see better designed suburbs that combine dense larger housing with public transit to connect the suburb communities with each other and the city they encircle. We need a size of home between the micro-apartment and the 2 million dollar mini mansion. I'd love to be able to take public transit into Boston from my place in the suburbs but train stations only have a few dozen parking spots and the bus service is limited to the city areas. So I drive for now.

jseliger 12y ago
most of these cities are not affordable to live in when you have kids This, however, is primarily a policy choice: http://www.amazon.com/Rent-Too-Damn-High-Matters-ebook/dp/B0078XGJXO http://www.amazon.com/Rent-Too-Damn-High-Matters-ebook/dp/B0... . I'd like to see better designed suburbs that combine dense larger housing with public transit to connect the suburb communities with each other and the city they encircle Me too. But suburbs have all the political veto problems described at the link above, but worse.
secabeen 12y ago
>I'd like to see better designed suburbs that combine dense larger housing with public transit to connect the suburb communities with each other and the city they encircle. This is a good point. Even if we increase public transit, almost all of these plans only improve connectivity between the suburb and downtown. When you need to get from one suburb to another to see a friend from work or school, that can take hours, even if both families are close to transit. Increased options between suburbs is important too.

rayiner 12y ago

When my wife and I lived in the NYC suburbs with our infant, we never drove my car. Who wants to wake a sleeping baby to get her in and out of a car seat when you can just walk into the train with her stroller? But in New York, even in the suburbs, you can get everywhere you need to go on the train. The bigger problem is schools. Big city public school districts are a total disaster. Though not for any inherent fact of geography, just politics and demographics.

prawn 12y ago
Plus the stroller serves as an easy way to store books, bottles, snacks, etc while walking.
- sarabeckwith 12y ago
  Many public transport options have rules against open strollers. It'd be a pretty big pain to take sleeping baby out, fold up stroller, then clamber onto a bus. I guess a subway would be different, but still probably has the same rule somewhere.
  - rayiner 12y ago
    Open strollers are okay I'm Chicago, both on trains and buses. They're okay I'm the DC Metro, NYC subway, and Metro North. They're ok on the DC circulator but not DC buses.
  - prawn 12y ago
    I'll keep an eye out for those rules - wasn't aware. About to visit the US for 8 weeks with a toddler and a baby, so we have our work cut out for us getting around. I've done it many times when travelling in Europe (though with one baby). Unless the stroller is overloaded, you can kinda fold it up awkwardly in the event that the carriage is quite full. I've taken full luggage, a stroller and a baby on the Paris metro in peak hour. Never again!
    - delg 12y ago

metaphorm 12y ago

humans have been dealing with babies since long before the invention of cars. maybe its not such a good thing that we haul around so much child-paraphernalia that we can't even carry it without a freight wagon. also consider that it might not be such a great thing for a parent to become a glorified chauffeur for their children. something is out of balance with the suburban lifestyle. there is an awful lot of driving around, with your kids in the backseat, in a big hurry to get to the next place to spend money on some junk for your kid.

secabeen 12y ago
Humans also had lots more kids and invested less in each one because they died frequently. When we only have 1-3 kids rather than 6-10 (of which 4 live to adulthood), it makes sense to put more energy into improving the ability of each one. It's not always some place to spend money. It can be the park that you're meeting your kid's best friend at, or the natural history museum you go to every day after school, or just your friend's house or the field that your soccer practice meets at. Sure, you can stay in the area within a few miles of your home/school and get around exclusively by bike or walking, but lots of kids and parents want more than that.

epc 12y ago

Most of my Generation–X friends surprisingly stayed in their respective cities on having kids (almost all have had kids in their late 30s or early 40s). Combination of improved schools in NYC, improved living conditions, desire to not spend hours commuting, or to live in a walkable neighborhood. Even know a couple who moved to lower Manhattan from suburban Chicago (Naperville) entirely over walkability + livability vs. long commute times. One issue I rarely see addressed in these articles is how difficult we've made it to get a driver's license in the US. I started driving when I was 14 (rural midwest roads) and got a license within a month of turning 16. In contrast my cousins (early millenials or very late GenX) couldn't even get permits until they were 15 1/2 and had to drive for nearly 2 years under adult supervision before they could get a license. That has to have some sort of negative impact on the interest or desire to drive.

rpcope1 12y ago
It's funny that you bring up licensing being hard to get; sometimes I wonder if we're not actually (still) too lenient in who we give drivers licenses to. Maybe it's just that I'm past the point where my pre-frontal cortex is fully developed, but I can't imagine that continuing to tighten the training and requirements needed to get a license is a bad thing (and this is coming from someone who really enjoys his cars).
- CalRobert 12y ago
  I tend to agree. It was interesting comparing the experience of getting a license in California in 2001: very few restrictions if you were 18, which I was, a laughably easy practical test with no training required, no waiting period after getting a permit - you could take the test the same day if there was a slot available; to getting one in Ireland in 2014 (12 hours of instruction required regardless of your age, must have had a permit (or foreign license) for at least 6 months, and a test with a 40% pass rate where you have to bring a standard transmission vehicle if you want to drive stick legally). Even after 13 years of driving, those 12 hours of training were actually pretty helpful. Not just for cleaning up bad habits, but for techniques I'd never properly learned in CA, like stick shift starts up steep hills with a stiff clutch. My city driving has improved as well.

restalis 12y ago

Millenial here. I have a kindergarten and a school (although I don't need it yet) in a walking distance. You may assume that that is a by-accident result, but it isn't! When it was the time to look a new place to stay in, having near-by a kindergarten, a school, a pharmacy store, a green park, and a lot of other smaller things were deemed as important. It's also important to understand that these things won't happen if are not asked for. In the rare cases when I absolutely need a car, I rent one. P.S.: I live in Europe.

panglott 12y ago

My sister ('81) and I ('79) both have 1 kid; I'm in a one-car household. Everyone told my sister she'd have to buy a car b/c of the baby, but she never has. We're not big cell-phone people either, I just hate being locked in a mobile refrigerator for hours. Not to mention that not having a car (or a second car) is just money in the pocket. We cycle instead, or carpool, use the bus. The bus is not a great option in a mid-sized city, but cycling is fine in inner-ring suburbs and downtown.