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> Cars are simply not safe. In addition to accident-type safety issues, I also find driving a bit worrying from the perspective of what you might call "legal s

> Cars are simply not safe. In addition to accident-type safety issues, I also find driving a bit worrying from the perspective of what you might call "legal safety". The chances of ending up in a negative interaction with the police seem much higher when you drive than when you travel via other modalities, because a traffic stop has a pretty low bar of evidence, and is often used as a lead-in to various other searches/etc. I probably am realistically not at that much risk (being a white middle-class person usually traveling in middle-class areas), but I still feel less exposed to the police when not driving.

FD3SA 12y ago
White, black or otherwise, you are quite susceptible to the tyranny of the police state [1]. The young man in that link was murdered in cold blood because he pissed off a cop. It was premeditated. The cop is still working actively on the force with zero repercussions. Cops have a license to kill with impunity. The race hysteria is used, ironically, to maintain the status quo via the clever bit of propaganda that "white" people are not at risk. Statistically, "whites" are less at risk, but only because they happen to be the richest demographic. As the article I've linked shows, the cops go after the weak and helpless, regardless of race or creed [2]. 1. http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/08/what-i-did-after-police-killed-my-son-110038.html#.VRmdAfnF8gQ http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/08/what-i-did-af... 2. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323848804578608040780519904 http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014241278873238488045786080...
- ams6110 12y ago
  I'm sorry but this is just ridiculous on its face. If you are pulled over for a traffic violation, 99% of the time you get a ticket or a warning and are on your way. You can't cherry pick two extreme incidents and pretend that this is the norm.
  - rayiner 12y ago
    The only time I ever interact with someone who has a gun is if I get pulled over while driving. Sure the risk is low, but the threat exists on every interaction, and is a big incentive for me to find ways to avoid driving.
    - Stefan-H 12y ago
      If you live in a state that has concealed-carry laws, then you are likely wrong about your comment that "the only time" you interact with people with guns.
      - _delirium 12y ago
        Even in those states it's not that common for people to actually carry guns, at least in cities. I lived for years in Houston, and it was very uncommon, even among people who had the license, in part because it greatly restricts where you can legally go. You can't enter any establishments that sell alcohol, post offices, educational institutions, most hospitals, sporting events, etc. Private property owners can also exclude weapons by posting a notice at the entrance. So you have to be very careful about how to plan your day if you're carrying.
        bhayden 12y ago
        >Even in those states it's not that common for people to actually carry guns, at least in cities. Going to need some sort of evidence for this. Anecdotal doesn't even work here because the firearms are concealed.
        _delirium 12y ago
        The firearms are concealed, sure, but you can still talk to people. :) I do know a reasonable number of people who have concealed-carry permits, and none of them carry a gun regularly, if they're telling the truth, because it's too much of a hassle and they don't normally feel a need to. They got the permit so they can, but it doesn't obligate them to actually do so. My guess (but it's a guess) extrapolating from that is that only a small fraction of permit holders actually carry at any given time. But it would be nice to have a more solid estimate, I agree. The number of permit holders itself is about 2% of the population, but I haven't found an estimate of the utilization rate.
  - m_mueller 12y ago
    Whenever someone raises these issues, there sure is someone like you putting them down by using the argument "but most of the cops are good guys, see? no problem, move along." You use an (uncited) 99% there. Fine, let's leave it at that. So in one in hundred cases you will have an unpleasant experience, ranging from being treated disrespectfully, to jail, to being tazed, to being shot. I don't know how you negotiate SLAs, but me, I wouldn't agree to these terms.
    - restalis 12y ago
      I don't know why you're being down-voted for this. I wanted to stretch it further, to "there are still good [pick your choice] in there, see? no problem, move along" as a ridiculous apology that may pop up even if 99% would be in fact bad/corrupt!
  - panglott 12y ago
    The Justice Department report on the Ferguson PD is ample evidence that, there are plenty of routine traffic stops are racially biased and seriously unjust, even if the person just gets a ticket and is waved on.

FD3SA 12y ago

White, black or otherwise, you are quite susceptible to the tyranny of the police state [1]. The young man in that link was murdered in cold blood because he pissed off a cop. It was premeditated. The cop is still working actively on the force with zero repercussions. Cops have a license to kill with impunity. The race hysteria is used, ironically, to maintain the status quo via the clever bit of propaganda that "white" people are not at risk. Statistically, "whites" are less at risk, but only because they happen to be the richest demographic. As the article I've linked shows, the cops go after the weak and helpless, regardless of race or creed [2]. 1. http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/08/what-i-did-after-police-killed-my-son-110038.html#.VRmdAfnF8gQ http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/08/what-i-did-af... 2. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323848804578608040780519904 http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014241278873238488045786080...

ams6110 12y ago
I'm sorry but this is just ridiculous on its face. If you are pulled over for a traffic violation, 99% of the time you get a ticket or a warning and are on your way. You can't cherry pick two extreme incidents and pretend that this is the norm.
- rayiner 12y ago
  The only time I ever interact with someone who has a gun is if I get pulled over while driving. Sure the risk is low, but the threat exists on every interaction, and is a big incentive for me to find ways to avoid driving.
  - Stefan-H 12y ago
    If you live in a state that has concealed-carry laws, then you are likely wrong about your comment that "the only time" you interact with people with guns.
    - _delirium 12y ago
      Even in those states it's not that common for people to actually carry guns, at least in cities. I lived for years in Houston, and it was very uncommon, even among people who had the license, in part because it greatly restricts where you can legally go. You can't enter any establishments that sell alcohol, post offices, educational institutions, most hospitals, sporting events, etc. Private property owners can also exclude weapons by posting a notice at the entrance. So you have to be very careful about how to plan your day if you're carrying.
      - bhayden 12y ago
        >Even in those states it's not that common for people to actually carry guns, at least in cities. Going to need some sort of evidence for this. Anecdotal doesn't even work here because the firearms are concealed.
        _delirium 12y ago
        The firearms are concealed, sure, but you can still talk to people. :) I do know a reasonable number of people who have concealed-carry permits, and none of them carry a gun regularly, if they're telling the truth, because it's too much of a hassle and they don't normally feel a need to. They got the permit so they can, but it doesn't obligate them to actually do so. My guess (but it's a guess) extrapolating from that is that only a small fraction of permit holders actually carry at any given time. But it would be nice to have a more solid estimate, I agree. The number of permit holders itself is about 2% of the population, but I haven't found an estimate of the utilization rate.
- m_mueller 12y ago
  Whenever someone raises these issues, there sure is someone like you putting them down by using the argument "but most of the cops are good guys, see? no problem, move along." You use an (uncited) 99% there. Fine, let's leave it at that. So in one in hundred cases you will have an unpleasant experience, ranging from being treated disrespectfully, to jail, to being tazed, to being shot. I don't know how you negotiate SLAs, but me, I wouldn't agree to these terms.
  - restalis 12y ago
    I don't know why you're being down-voted for this. I wanted to stretch it further, to "there are still good [pick your choice] in there, see? no problem, move along" as a ridiculous apology that may pop up even if 99% would be in fact bad/corrupt!
- panglott 12y ago
  The Justice Department report on the Ferguson PD is ample evidence that, there are plenty of routine traffic stops are racially biased and seriously unjust, even if the person just gets a ticket and is waved on.