4 ms·

I've thought about this too. Instead of "tip creep", I hoped technology would have enabled us to emerge from this nonsensical tipping culture (the US is in dire

by izolate 12y ago

I've thought about this too. Instead of "tip creep", I hoped technology would have enabled us to emerge from this nonsensical tipping culture (the US is in dire need of change in this regard).

edgyswingset 12y ago
Until we can legislate that servers make at least $7.25/hr nationwide, no amount of technology is going to move us in that regard.
- zo1 12y ago
  Most states have laws for tipped employees to make sure they take at least that much home. Some are slightly higher, others a bit lower. Here is a link to the Department of Labor site with more info, if you're curious. http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm #Note. The left-most column is the important one.
- Bjartr 12y ago
  Which states don't enforce that employers have to make up the difference if tips aren't enough to bring a server up to at least minimum wage?
  - minot 12y ago
    If they have to make up the difference often enough, they'll just let you go.
    - zo1 12y ago
      Perhaps, but the owners still have to pay-up. Otherwise, the failing is in the enforcement of the laws.
  - maxsilver 12y ago
    All of them. If your just trying to be pedantic, then yes it's technically required for employers to make up the difference. But in practice, restaurants typically fire anyone who presses the issue. So in practice, all states don't enforce employers making up the difference.
- Shivetya 12y ago
  It would be better to simply mandate that tips cannot be used in determining total compensation. However I am more along the lines of eliminating tips, raising the menu prices to represent the cost of paying the service staff the market wage, and then looking at the whole experience when deciding on coming back. I never bother with restaurants that have mandatory tips on their checks, its a flat out markup and does not let me decide if the service is good or not. I do think many people suffer tip fatigue as the use of tip jars has become offensive to many, especially in the quick serve food industries.
- borgia 12y ago
  >Until we can legislate that servers make at least $7.25/hr nationwide, no amount of technology is going to move us in that regard. Even with generous minimum wages, tip culture has crept into Western Europe pretty rapidly. It's more than just a wage technicality that has to change to overcome or dismantle the established tipping culture. I really, really like the idea of being able to just get up and walk out of a restaurant or bar without having to deal with money though. That said, so long as tips remain expected you're going to come across as a jerk if you don't leave something and it'll likely be remembered for the next time you visit.
- corey 12y ago
  Or just let the market handle it. If people stop tipping, restaurants would be forced to increase wages, because nobody is going to work for $3/hour.
  - edgyswingset 12y ago
    This solution will cause suffering for a great number of people as they have the choice of either making money on the low end of poverty or become unemployed altogether. It's simply not a realistic option.
mgkimsal 12y ago
It definitely needs to change. There are very few other industries that have 'tipping' as a core part, and food service is (I think) rather unique in that the server's tips are dependent on loads of other folks who aren't subject to tipping "below min wage" pay, yet typically still get a cut of the tips. I'm thinking of the rest of the staff - managers, busboys, cooks, cleaners, etc. All of those other roles have an impact on the service, yet, AFAIK, only the server has to deal with $2/hr-please-i'm-begging-for-a-tip situation. Tipping has generally no effect on the quality of the rest of the service - food quality, cleanliness, speed, etc. Those are all outside the control of the server, but they're going to bear the brunt of the bad output from those other workers.
- pdx 12y ago
  When I was a waiter, at the end of the night, I tipped approximately 40% of my tips received, back to the dishwashers, cooks, bartender, and of course, my bus person. The other waiters did this too, so the cooks, might end up with more money than I did, on top of their higher hourly salary. This is as it should be, since their skill level is higher. You tip the waiter, but they should be distributing that tip to the others. If they fail to do so, the cooks will deprioritize their food, the bartender will deprioritize their drinks, the buss person will deprioritize their tables, and they won't be making very good tips anymore. As a customer, I tip 20% if the service is good, 10% if it is average, and I will leave a penny on the table for those who completely screwed up. I have walked a mile in their shoes, so I get to judge them. Was the kitchen slow with the food? Maybe that's because this waiter never shares the wealth with the back of the house. Leave him a penny if you think it's warranted. Don't forgive him for the inadequacy of the rest of the staff. He may have earned their slow down, so why should you reward him? As for tipping vs non-tipping in general. When I go to Paris, I can feel that the staff doesn't care that much about how well they serve me, since they'll get theirs anyway. The incentives are different. In a non-tipping restaurant, it's to the staff's advantage to get you in and get you out, as quickly as possible, to turn over that table, regardless of the happiness level of the customers.
  - mgkimsal 12y ago
    It's definitely not like that in all restaurants - as a dishwasher at a restaurant I never got pooled tips. Some places do it, some don't. This whole "we'll deprioritize your drinks if you don't give me a lot of money" is just... INSANE. It's really bizarre. "He may have earned their slow down, so why should you reward him?" You have no way of knowing why in the first place. And giving him a penny ensures that if this sort of blackmail is going on, this server has now even less leverage in order to try to buy decent service from coworkers. The restaurant owners that let this go on get hurt too. I don't particularly care if my service was bad because the cook was slow because he wasn't getting tipped enough to warrant cooking my food the way I asked for it. I don't care if the service was bad because the server wasn't able to curry favor with the bar staff. I just care the service was shitty, and I won't be back. Even less money for the bar staff, cooks, dishwashers and ultimately owners. In tipping restaurants, the incentive is still for turnover as fast as possible. The extra $5 they might get from me is less overall than the extra $30 they'll get from packing in 3 more tables that night. And if everyone is sharing tips, they all have even more incentive for faster turnover, regardless of my happiness. EDIT: if restaurants were transparent with everything up front - detailing where tips go, showing me a scoreboard of which servers had favor with bar staff and line cooks, and let me choose the 'best' staff, great. I don't get any of that advantage. I get a random server who may just have pissed someone off last week, and nothing I can do about it.
jasonlotito 12y ago
This is discussed in the article. Do you not agree with the methods presented?

by izolate 12y ago

I've thought about this too. Instead of "tip creep", I hoped technology would have enabled us to emerge from this nonsensical tipping culture (the US is in dire need of change in this regard).

edgyswingset 12y ago

Until we can legislate that servers make at least $7.25/hr nationwide, no amount of technology is going to move us in that regard.

zo1 12y ago
Most states have laws for tipped employees to make sure they take at least that much home. Some are slightly higher, others a bit lower. Here is a link to the Department of Labor site with more info, if you're curious. http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm #Note. The left-most column is the important one.
Bjartr 12y ago
Which states don't enforce that employers have to make up the difference if tips aren't enough to bring a server up to at least minimum wage?
- minot 12y ago
  If they have to make up the difference often enough, they'll just let you go.
  - zo1 12y ago
    Perhaps, but the owners still have to pay-up. Otherwise, the failing is in the enforcement of the laws.
- maxsilver 12y ago
  All of them. If your just trying to be pedantic, then yes it's technically required for employers to make up the difference. But in practice, restaurants typically fire anyone who presses the issue. So in practice, all states don't enforce employers making up the difference.
Shivetya 12y ago
It would be better to simply mandate that tips cannot be used in determining total compensation. However I am more along the lines of eliminating tips, raising the menu prices to represent the cost of paying the service staff the market wage, and then looking at the whole experience when deciding on coming back. I never bother with restaurants that have mandatory tips on their checks, its a flat out markup and does not let me decide if the service is good or not. I do think many people suffer tip fatigue as the use of tip jars has become offensive to many, especially in the quick serve food industries.
borgia 12y ago
>Until we can legislate that servers make at least $7.25/hr nationwide, no amount of technology is going to move us in that regard. Even with generous minimum wages, tip culture has crept into Western Europe pretty rapidly. It's more than just a wage technicality that has to change to overcome or dismantle the established tipping culture. I really, really like the idea of being able to just get up and walk out of a restaurant or bar without having to deal with money though. That said, so long as tips remain expected you're going to come across as a jerk if you don't leave something and it'll likely be remembered for the next time you visit.
corey 12y ago
Or just let the market handle it. If people stop tipping, restaurants would be forced to increase wages, because nobody is going to work for $3/hour.
- edgyswingset 12y ago
  This solution will cause suffering for a great number of people as they have the choice of either making money on the low end of poverty or become unemployed altogether. It's simply not a realistic option.

mgkimsal 12y ago

It definitely needs to change. There are very few other industries that have 'tipping' as a core part, and food service is (I think) rather unique in that the server's tips are dependent on loads of other folks who aren't subject to tipping "below min wage" pay, yet typically still get a cut of the tips. I'm thinking of the rest of the staff - managers, busboys, cooks, cleaners, etc. All of those other roles have an impact on the service, yet, AFAIK, only the server has to deal with $2/hr-please-i'm-begging-for-a-tip situation. Tipping has generally no effect on the quality of the rest of the service - food quality, cleanliness, speed, etc. Those are all outside the control of the server, but they're going to bear the brunt of the bad output from those other workers.

pdx 12y ago
When I was a waiter, at the end of the night, I tipped approximately 40% of my tips received, back to the dishwashers, cooks, bartender, and of course, my bus person. The other waiters did this too, so the cooks, might end up with more money than I did, on top of their higher hourly salary. This is as it should be, since their skill level is higher. You tip the waiter, but they should be distributing that tip to the others. If they fail to do so, the cooks will deprioritize their food, the bartender will deprioritize their drinks, the buss person will deprioritize their tables, and they won't be making very good tips anymore. As a customer, I tip 20% if the service is good, 10% if it is average, and I will leave a penny on the table for those who completely screwed up. I have walked a mile in their shoes, so I get to judge them. Was the kitchen slow with the food? Maybe that's because this waiter never shares the wealth with the back of the house. Leave him a penny if you think it's warranted. Don't forgive him for the inadequacy of the rest of the staff. He may have earned their slow down, so why should you reward him? As for tipping vs non-tipping in general. When I go to Paris, I can feel that the staff doesn't care that much about how well they serve me, since they'll get theirs anyway. The incentives are different. In a non-tipping restaurant, it's to the staff's advantage to get you in and get you out, as quickly as possible, to turn over that table, regardless of the happiness level of the customers.
- mgkimsal 12y ago
  It's definitely not like that in all restaurants - as a dishwasher at a restaurant I never got pooled tips. Some places do it, some don't. This whole "we'll deprioritize your drinks if you don't give me a lot of money" is just... INSANE. It's really bizarre. "He may have earned their slow down, so why should you reward him?" You have no way of knowing why in the first place. And giving him a penny ensures that if this sort of blackmail is going on, this server has now even less leverage in order to try to buy decent service from coworkers. The restaurant owners that let this go on get hurt too. I don't particularly care if my service was bad because the cook was slow because he wasn't getting tipped enough to warrant cooking my food the way I asked for it. I don't care if the service was bad because the server wasn't able to curry favor with the bar staff. I just care the service was shitty, and I won't be back. Even less money for the bar staff, cooks, dishwashers and ultimately owners. In tipping restaurants, the incentive is still for turnover as fast as possible. The extra $5 they might get from me is less overall than the extra $30 they'll get from packing in 3 more tables that night. And if everyone is sharing tips, they all have even more incentive for faster turnover, regardless of my happiness. EDIT: if restaurants were transparent with everything up front - detailing where tips go, showing me a scoreboard of which servers had favor with bar staff and line cooks, and let me choose the 'best' staff, great. I don't get any of that advantage. I get a random server who may just have pissed someone off last week, and nothing I can do about it.

jasonlotito 12y ago

This is discussed in the article. Do you not agree with the methods presented?