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1) The rocket scientist case was a) entirely ridiculous in itself, and b) is a textbook example of the "tu quoque fallacy"[1]; the fact that some putatively sim
by pjlegato 12y ago
1) The rocket scientist case was a) entirely ridiculous in itself, and b) is a textbook example of the "tu quoque fallacy"[1]; the fact that some putatively similar thing happens in the west is irrelevant to the question of whether it is bad that it happens in Burma.
2) Do you realize that the postmodernist cultural relativism you are blithely spreading around the world was formulated by fascists to justify their wars of conquest and genocides? [2][3]
3) The mere fact that different cultures have differences in standards, and that what's normal in one place is weird in another, does not imply that one ought to be non-judgemental towards and non-critical of anything another culture does. This does not follow from the premise.
Relativism additionally requires one to adopt an attitude of invarying quietism towards all manner of atrocities, no matter how severe (presuming that hypocrisy is undesirable, which does not seem to actually be a problem for many postmodernists.) The cultural relativist, faced with the Holocaust or the genocide in Sudan, can only passively say, "Well, that's their way, we shouldn't impose our own standards on them."
This very cultural relativism argument is indeed routinely employed today by the most brutal dictatorships in the world[4] to justify all manner of atrocities, by brushing off any criticisms as mere "western imperialists trying to impose western standards upon us and our culture."
That's the company you choose for yourself when you advocate for cultural relativism. In the western world, it's typically adopted as some kind of enlightened and fair worldview by kindhearted intellectuals in a liberal arts college somewhere. Outside the western world, it's something very different: an ideological tool for dictators to sidestep criticism of atrocity.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Heidegger https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Heidegger
[3] "Everything I have said and done in these last years is relativism by intuition. If relativism signifies contempt for fixed categories and those who claim to be the bearers of objective immortal truth … then there is nothing more relativistic than Fascist attitudes and activity... From the fact that all ideologies are of equal value, that all ideologies are mere fictions, the modern relativist infers that everybody has the right to create for himself his own ideology and to attempt to enforce it with all the energy of which he is capable." - Benito Mussolini, "Diuturna"
[4] President Bashir of Sudan, North Korea, the Burmese military junta itself, the PRC, and many others.
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- allendoerfer 12y agoYour argumentation makes sense and I enjoyed reading it, unfortunately you just followed Godwin's law. Your parent comment could have just wanted to point out, that the western world is not perfect and we should be (as always) careful when judging. He or she could have found a better example, though, directly comparing religious legislation to religious legislation. Being reflective does not always equal cultural relativism.
- harperlee 12y agoAlso, it is fallacious to suggest, that, because of the fact that it was initially formulated by fascists as a propagandistic weapon, postmodernist cultural relativism is false, or not a useful view of the world. If fact I think it is very useful to stop and consider that point of view, and be able to reflect on it, and reach conclusions about why it is or it is not a good cosmovision to have.
- pjlegato 12y agoIf you reread my argument, you will see that I never said the fact that fascists invented moral relativism makes it false. I rather argued that those who adopt this viewpoint are aligning themselves not only with fascists but with all manner of other tyrants and dictators who commit what most people regard as horrid atrocities, and that moreover moral relativists are required (insofar as they wish to avoid hypocrisy) to morally and philosophically support these acts. I believe that most western moral relativists do not realize this. I am pointing out that moral relativism is not an inherently leftist or "nice" viewpoint, contrary to common opinion among western intellectuals. I said nothing about whether it was true or false.
- monort 12y agoI think this are better cases: prosecution in US for possession of a manga drawing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_cartoon_pornography_depicting_minors#2005_Virginia_case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_cartoon_pornog... It's awful how often i think, that something can't happen in a developed world, and after googling for a precedent I find it.