7 ms·

I used to suffer from pretty bad anxiety, particularly existential anxiety, and would sometimes have panic attacks. My doctor recommended SSRIs, but I declined

I used to suffer from pretty bad anxiety, particularly existential anxiety, and would sometimes have panic attacks. My doctor recommended SSRIs, but I declined due to the increased risk of suicide. Taking psilocybin mushrooms in a positive environment with my friends was perhaps the single most therapeutic and rewarding thing I’ve ever experienced. In the months since, my anxiety has evaporated, my panic attacks have stopped, and I’ve been taking better care of myself and my environment. For me, it has been a wonder-drug. Above all, I have a lasting sense of well being—that everything is going to be alright. And I think to deny that experience to people, particularly people who are grappling with death as I was, is simply inhumane.

lsdaccounthn 12y ago
I have a similar anecdote but LSD rather than psilocybin and depression rather than anxiety. Commented on it at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8996106 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8996106
marincounty 12y ago
I can second SSRI's did absolutely nothing for my anxiety, nor dysthymic depression! I don't think I'm the kind of person who could handle any psychedelic type drug though.
- fnordfnordfnord 12y ago
  >I can second SSRI's did absolutely nothing for my anxiety, nor dysthymic depression! I concur. >I don't think I'm the kind of person who could handle any psychedelic type drug though. You might be surprised.
- tim333 12y ago
  Word of warning for anyone experimenting. Magic mushrooms of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybe_semilanceata http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybe_semilanceata type are fairly mild especially if you only take a few. LSD on the other hand tends to be pretty full on. Sometimes people sell regular mushrooms with LSD on rather than the proper type. Best to ask a drugy mate who's tried the stuff so you know what you're getting.
  - EiZei 12y ago
    Why would people sell regular mushrooms laced with a substance that is in all likelihood harder to get and more expensive than magic mushrooms which can be grown by anyone?
    - evincarofautumn 12y ago
      I don’t know about obtaining LSD, but growing mushrooms is not all that easy. You have to ensure that the substrate on which you grow them is free of contaminants, because psilocybe mushrooms tend to be sensitive, and can easily succumb to local moulds. In addition, it takes a few months of keeping them at the right moisture level to produce a healthy crop, during which many things might go wrong. It might very well be more cost-effective to buy grocery-store dehydrated mushrooms and lace them with a few drops of LSD than to go through the hassle of learning how to grow your own shrooms.
      - collyw 12y ago
        I find that hard to believe, as they grow naturally in loads of places, and you can get kits online as well. Maybe in specific climates.
    - lsdaccounthn 12y ago
      I've never tried mushrooms, but the last time I looked at their prices on the dark net markets (probably 2-4 months ago) they were costing ~$20 for what I'm told would be a dose equivalent to ~100ug of LSD. I was buying ~115ug LSD blotters at $3-4 each. Can certainly see based on those prices why it could be profitable to do so. That said I know that the magic mushrooms pricing was thought by everyone to be massively inflated due to lack of supply at that time, so possibly it was a temporary situation.
    - tim333 12y ago
      The marginal cost of LSD is very low. If you make a batch it can provide enough doses for thousands or millions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide#Economics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide#Econ...
low_battery 12y ago
If taken with care and not abused I also believe mushrooms has good potential. It's effect is quite gentle and generally positive. Shame that it is put in the same bucket with hard drugs in almost all countries.
udp 12y ago
I haven't commented on HN for a long time, but this hit far too close to home not to respond to. I have had exactly the same kind of existential anxiety from a very young age (I remember discussing this extensively with my parents at ~7 year old). It used to be something that only happened late at night when I was alone - until the first time it hit me in a completely normal situation. I was literally mid conversation and suddenly all I could think about was my inevitable mortality. I can not describe the feeling of shock and helplessness. The floor disappeared beneath me. I walk out of the house every morning and look at the people in the street, and I just don't understand how they can function normally in the face of certain death. Terminally ill people are often anxious because they're going to die. But everyone is going to die. We are all terminally ill with this fatal disease called "life". It's nothing to do with wanting to accomplish more before I die. It's the very idea of not existing that I can't comprehend. I'm sure anyone would agree that the world ending would be a fairly grim prospect. When you die, the world ends. Game over, even if everyone else continues. Alcohol is a wonderful escape from an over-active mind, but guzzling a substance that's likely to screw with your health long term... isn't exactly ideal for an existentialist and hypochondriac. SSRIs seem to help regulate things until - months in - you realise they are actually pretty nasty drugs with too many observable side effects to count on both hands. Maybe shrooms are the answer, indeed, though having never dared touch them from - strangely enough, fear of their inducing a panic attack - I've yet to be able to comment on that.
- evincarofautumn 12y ago
  My experience is similar to yours. All I can suggest is that you do thorough research, and make your own informed decision about whether to do psychedelics—and if so, pay close attention to set, setting, and dosage. I am not an experienced user of psychedelics, so I cannot make any recommendations, only describe my own experience. To those who don’t know what it’s like to have existential anxiety, here’s an exercise. Think of being a character in a horror movie who comes to the realisation that they are “not getting out of here”. An existential panic attack is the feeling that life itself is such a situation.
- vinceguidry 12y ago
  > guzzling a substance that's likely to screw with your health long term... Low-to-moderate alcohol use has been shown to have significant health benefits over the long-term. For me, three beers is enough to have a strong enough stress-reduction effect, two if they're strong. My mind just unwinds and I relax. I used to think I'd develop a tolerance and start needing more and more to get the same effect, I no longer think so after many years of roughly the same level of consumption. Alcohol is generally not a problem unless you start really young or had the kind of abusive childhood that leads to addictive behaviors.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
DanBC 12y ago
May I ask: was the first recommendation SSRIs? Because if so it's disappointing that your doctor leapt directly to medication. NICE guidance (in England) for anxiety disorders recommend psychological therapy as a first intervention. Cognitive behaviour therapy has most evidence and that's easiest to get (in England). People can self refer to local NHS CBT treatment (which is free), or they can be refered by their doctor; or they can go to private therapists. (BACP accreditation is reputable. Sessions cost between £30 - £50 each. Guidelines suggest between 8 to 14 sessions). It's great that you found something that helped! Anxiety sounds to many people like something not so bad, but it can be really disruptive of someone's life.
- evincarofautumn 12y ago
  Medication was not my doctor’s first recommendation. They pointed out that medication and therapy together tend to be more effective than either alone, and suggested that if I wanted to take medication, then SSRIs would be a suitable prescription for my symptoms. These I declined after doing thorough research and concluding that I would be better served by psychedelics. And, happily, in fact I was.
latiera 12y ago
Psychedelics have their positives and their negatives. You can try to control the experience with controlling the set but really that doesn't mean it's gonna work. You're blasting open the door to your subconscious mind, anything could happen and when the bad shit does happen, it better be not so bad that there's nothing you can do and there better be someone there that can help you deal with it. McKenna was a mushroom head, he eventually had a trip so bad that made him pretty much stop psychedelics for the rest of his life. (http://www.teemingbrain.com/2012/08/13/initiation-by-nightmare-cosmic-horror-and-chapel-perilous/ http://www.teemingbrain.com/2012/08/13/initiation-by-nightma...) There are cosmic/spiritual "experiences" and "visions" one can get on mushrooms, that are utterly horrific and can utterly destroy a person's psyche or reduce him to an empty shell. They don't happen often but they _do_ happen.

lsdaccounthn 12y ago

I have a similar anecdote but LSD rather than psilocybin and depression rather than anxiety. Commented on it at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8996106 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8996106

marincounty 12y ago

I can second SSRI's did absolutely nothing for my anxiety, nor dysthymic depression! I don't think I'm the kind of person who could handle any psychedelic type drug though.

fnordfnordfnord 12y ago
>I can second SSRI's did absolutely nothing for my anxiety, nor dysthymic depression! I concur. >I don't think I'm the kind of person who could handle any psychedelic type drug though. You might be surprised.
tim333 12y ago
Word of warning for anyone experimenting. Magic mushrooms of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybe_semilanceata http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybe_semilanceata type are fairly mild especially if you only take a few. LSD on the other hand tends to be pretty full on. Sometimes people sell regular mushrooms with LSD on rather than the proper type. Best to ask a drugy mate who's tried the stuff so you know what you're getting.
- EiZei 12y ago
  Why would people sell regular mushrooms laced with a substance that is in all likelihood harder to get and more expensive than magic mushrooms which can be grown by anyone?
  - evincarofautumn 12y ago
    I don’t know about obtaining LSD, but growing mushrooms is not all that easy. You have to ensure that the substrate on which you grow them is free of contaminants, because psilocybe mushrooms tend to be sensitive, and can easily succumb to local moulds. In addition, it takes a few months of keeping them at the right moisture level to produce a healthy crop, during which many things might go wrong. It might very well be more cost-effective to buy grocery-store dehydrated mushrooms and lace them with a few drops of LSD than to go through the hassle of learning how to grow your own shrooms.
    - collyw 12y ago
      I find that hard to believe, as they grow naturally in loads of places, and you can get kits online as well. Maybe in specific climates.
  - lsdaccounthn 12y ago
    I've never tried mushrooms, but the last time I looked at their prices on the dark net markets (probably 2-4 months ago) they were costing ~$20 for what I'm told would be a dose equivalent to ~100ug of LSD. I was buying ~115ug LSD blotters at $3-4 each. Can certainly see based on those prices why it could be profitable to do so. That said I know that the magic mushrooms pricing was thought by everyone to be massively inflated due to lack of supply at that time, so possibly it was a temporary situation.
  - tim333 12y ago
    The marginal cost of LSD is very low. If you make a batch it can provide enough doses for thousands or millions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide#Economics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide#Econ...

low_battery 12y ago

If taken with care and not abused I also believe mushrooms has good potential. It's effect is quite gentle and generally positive. Shame that it is put in the same bucket with hard drugs in almost all countries.

udp 12y ago

I haven't commented on HN for a long time, but this hit far too close to home not to respond to. I have had exactly the same kind of existential anxiety from a very young age (I remember discussing this extensively with my parents at ~7 year old). It used to be something that only happened late at night when I was alone - until the first time it hit me in a completely normal situation. I was literally mid conversation and suddenly all I could think about was my inevitable mortality. I can not describe the feeling of shock and helplessness. The floor disappeared beneath me. I walk out of the house every morning and look at the people in the street, and I just don't understand how they can function normally in the face of certain death. Terminally ill people are often anxious because they're going to die. But everyone is going to die. We are all terminally ill with this fatal disease called "life". It's nothing to do with wanting to accomplish more before I die. It's the very idea of not existing that I can't comprehend. I'm sure anyone would agree that the world ending would be a fairly grim prospect. When you die, the world ends. Game over, even if everyone else continues. Alcohol is a wonderful escape from an over-active mind, but guzzling a substance that's likely to screw with your health long term... isn't exactly ideal for an existentialist and hypochondriac. SSRIs seem to help regulate things until - months in - you realise they are actually pretty nasty drugs with too many observable side effects to count on both hands. Maybe shrooms are the answer, indeed, though having never dared touch them from - strangely enough, fear of their inducing a panic attack - I've yet to be able to comment on that.

evincarofautumn 12y ago
My experience is similar to yours. All I can suggest is that you do thorough research, and make your own informed decision about whether to do psychedelics—and if so, pay close attention to set, setting, and dosage. I am not an experienced user of psychedelics, so I cannot make any recommendations, only describe my own experience. To those who don’t know what it’s like to have existential anxiety, here’s an exercise. Think of being a character in a horror movie who comes to the realisation that they are “not getting out of here”. An existential panic attack is the feeling that life itself is such a situation.
vinceguidry 12y ago
> guzzling a substance that's likely to screw with your health long term... Low-to-moderate alcohol use has been shown to have significant health benefits over the long-term. For me, three beers is enough to have a strong enough stress-reduction effect, two if they're strong. My mind just unwinds and I relax. I used to think I'd develop a tolerance and start needing more and more to get the same effect, I no longer think so after many years of roughly the same level of consumption. Alcohol is generally not a problem unless you start really young or had the kind of abusive childhood that leads to addictive behaviors.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

DanBC 12y ago

May I ask: was the first recommendation SSRIs? Because if so it's disappointing that your doctor leapt directly to medication. NICE guidance (in England) for anxiety disorders recommend psychological therapy as a first intervention. Cognitive behaviour therapy has most evidence and that's easiest to get (in England). People can self refer to local NHS CBT treatment (which is free), or they can be refered by their doctor; or they can go to private therapists. (BACP accreditation is reputable. Sessions cost between £30 - £50 each. Guidelines suggest between 8 to 14 sessions). It's great that you found something that helped! Anxiety sounds to many people like something not so bad, but it can be really disruptive of someone's life.

evincarofautumn 12y ago
Medication was not my doctor’s first recommendation. They pointed out that medication and therapy together tend to be more effective than either alone, and suggested that if I wanted to take medication, then SSRIs would be a suitable prescription for my symptoms. These I declined after doing thorough research and concluding that I would be better served by psychedelics. And, happily, in fact I was.

latiera 12y ago

Psychedelics have their positives and their negatives. You can try to control the experience with controlling the set but really that doesn't mean it's gonna work. You're blasting open the door to your subconscious mind, anything could happen and when the bad shit does happen, it better be not so bad that there's nothing you can do and there better be someone there that can help you deal with it. McKenna was a mushroom head, he eventually had a trip so bad that made him pretty much stop psychedelics for the rest of his life. (http://www.teemingbrain.com/2012/08/13/initiation-by-nightmare-cosmic-horror-and-chapel-perilous/ http://www.teemingbrain.com/2012/08/13/initiation-by-nightma...) There are cosmic/spiritual "experiences" and "visions" one can get on mushrooms, that are utterly horrific and can utterly destroy a person's psyche or reduce him to an empty shell. They don't happen often but they _do_ happen.