4 ms·

This article is conflating two different ideas; that we should have more students studying STEM subjects, and that students should have a narrower (and more STE

This article is conflating two different ideas; that we should have more students studying STEM subjects, and that students should have a narrower (and more STEM-focused) education. You can disagree with either of these proposals (and I disagree with both), but it is wrong to set up one as a straw-man to argue against the other. The real reasons to think that STEM-mania is silly are much better described elsewhere (e.g. here; http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/03/the-myth-of-the-science-and-engineering-shortage/284359/ http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/03/the-myt...). There is little-to-nothing to be gained by trying to entice reluctant students into fields with high unemployment and stagnant wages in the face of STEM majors leaving their respective fields in droves.

_gotmilk 12y ago
I have seen this argument a lot, and it doesn't hold water. Those STEM majors leaving the field often get salaries higher than people who majored in that field going into it. It seems that these employers value the STEM education moreso than people who major in the same field. Second, it is entirely possible that these STEM majors voluntarily left the STEM field. More people are doing STEM but that doesn't mean more people are passionate about STEM. Engineering isn't for everyone, and I myself have thought about leaving the field and going elsewhere not because I can't find a job but because I want to.
- eutectic 12y ago
  The burden of proof is on the pro-STEMmers to show that we really do need a bunch more STEM majors, not on the rest of us to prove we don't. Edit: and are you sure that your higher-wages claim (source?) is not just evidence that STEM majors act as an effective filter for the smart and driven.
  - _gotmilk 12y ago
    I originally read: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/linda-rosen/the-truth-hurts-the-stem-_b_3900575.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/linda-rosen/the-truth-hurts-th... Quote: "People in STEM jobs benefit from being in such high demand. Study[1] after study[2] confirms that STEM professionals get paid more than non-STEM professionals -- often much more -- even when you control for their education and other factors. Contrary to Charette's claim that STEM wages have stagnated, reports from Georgetown, the Commerce Department[3], and the Information Technology Innovation Foundation[4] show that they have risen faster than non-STEM wages, even in recent years. That is a sign that employers are feeling the pinch." The Studies linked: [1] http://www.esa.doc.gov/Reports/stem-good-jobs-now-and-future http://www.esa.doc.gov/Reports/stem-good-jobs-now-and-future [2] https://cew.georgetown.edu/report/stem/ https://cew.georgetown.edu/report/stem/ [3]http://www.esa.doc.gov/Reports/stem-good-jobs-now-and-future http://www.esa.doc.gov/Reports/stem-good-jobs-now-and-future [4] http://www.itif.org/publications/real-story-guestworkers-high-skill-us-labor-market http://www.itif.org/publications/real-story-guestworkers-hig...

_gotmilk 12y ago

I have seen this argument a lot, and it doesn't hold water. Those STEM majors leaving the field often get salaries higher than people who majored in that field going into it. It seems that these employers value the STEM education moreso than people who major in the same field. Second, it is entirely possible that these STEM majors voluntarily left the STEM field. More people are doing STEM but that doesn't mean more people are passionate about STEM. Engineering isn't for everyone, and I myself have thought about leaving the field and going elsewhere not because I can't find a job but because I want to.

eutectic 12y ago
The burden of proof is on the pro-STEMmers to show that we really do need a bunch more STEM majors, not on the rest of us to prove we don't. Edit: and are you sure that your higher-wages claim (source?) is not just evidence that STEM majors act as an effective filter for the smart and driven.
- _gotmilk 12y ago
  I originally read: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/linda-rosen/the-truth-hurts-the-stem-_b_3900575.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/linda-rosen/the-truth-hurts-th... Quote: "People in STEM jobs benefit from being in such high demand. Study[1] after study[2] confirms that STEM professionals get paid more than non-STEM professionals -- often much more -- even when you control for their education and other factors. Contrary to Charette's claim that STEM wages have stagnated, reports from Georgetown, the Commerce Department[3], and the Information Technology Innovation Foundation[4] show that they have risen faster than non-STEM wages, even in recent years. That is a sign that employers are feeling the pinch." The Studies linked: [1] http://www.esa.doc.gov/Reports/stem-good-jobs-now-and-future http://www.esa.doc.gov/Reports/stem-good-jobs-now-and-future [2] https://cew.georgetown.edu/report/stem/ https://cew.georgetown.edu/report/stem/ [3]http://www.esa.doc.gov/Reports/stem-good-jobs-now-and-future http://www.esa.doc.gov/Reports/stem-good-jobs-now-and-future [4] http://www.itif.org/publications/real-story-guestworkers-high-skill-us-labor-market http://www.itif.org/publications/real-story-guestworkers-hig...