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When: 43% of americans don't believe in evolution. (1) 53% don't believe in climate change (2) 15% don't think vaccination is safe. Then I don't think you don

by elviejo 12y ago

When: 43% of americans don't believe in evolution. (1) 53% don't believe in climate change (2) 15% don't think vaccination is safe. Then I don't think you don't hace a problem of obsession with STEM, bit with The lack of It. 1 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_support_for_evolution http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_support_for_evolutio... (2)http://dailycaller.com/2014/06/26/poll-53-of-americans-dont-believe-in-man-made-global-warming/&ved=0CCkQFjAE&usg=AFQjCNGSdRpjQK2jI1QYnqQS_vzyOAM6Yw http://dailycaller.com/2014/06/26/poll-53-of-americans-dont-...

kiba 12y ago
It isn't really about scientific ignorance but as to what tribe(s) you belong to or what authorities you trust. To believe in evolution is to contradict their beliefs in God. Most people on HN didn't reasoned out the chain of evidence that lead to us to believe in evolution, yet they probably believe in the theory of evolution.
- protomyth 12y ago
  "To believe in evolution is to contradict their beliefs in God." Once again, no. Stop spreading this tripe. Catholic doctrine for example is quite clear a belief in evolution does not contradict church doctrine. This is the kind of statement that tries to create a conflict where one shouldn't be.
  - kiba 12y ago
    For people who believe that evolution is false, it's a contradiction of their beliefs in God.
  - 10098 12y ago
    > Catholic doctrine for example is quite clear a belief in evolution does not contradict church doctrine. Of course they are, they have to adapt. Who would go to church if they still insisted that the sun revolves around the earth? Just goes to show that God begins where true knowledge ends.
    - jdefr89 12y ago
      You are aware the Big Bang and many other scientific principles/theories were brought about by Catholic priests right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre Science and religion are not intrinsically at odds with each other please stop spreading that extreme non-sense
      - 10098 12y ago
        Tell it to this guy: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/saudiarabia/11419428/Watch-Saudi-cleric-tells-students-Earth-does-not-rotate.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/saudiar... Or tell it to this girl's father: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tema.ru%2Ftravel%2Fturkmenistan-6%2F https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&tl=en&u=h... (scroll down). This is modern times, by the way. In 2015, there are people who treat women as subhuman beings due to religious reasons. Please tell me more how religion doesn't go hand-in-hand with ignorance. US isn't the only country in the world, and Christianity isn't the only religion. Christianity has been (and continues to be) watered down to be able to exist in modern western society, that is why you are able to say that it's not at odds with science. Back in the day, if you dared questioning the geocentric model, you'd be burned at the stake.
      - Retra 12y ago
        They absolutely are, and pretending otherwise doesn't make it so. Scientific descriptions of reality are required to adhere to strong principles of information conservation. Religious beliefs are, both by definition and in practice, required to reject such principles. If that isn't 'incompatibility,' then the word is meaningless.
reasonish 12y ago
I can see the worry with vaccination, as it directly affects everyone, but does everyone necessarily have to agree on the other two issues? Is it a real issue if someone is doing really good things for society, being an excellent person, but happens to disagree with you about evolution or climate change? Science is getting to be its own fundamental religion for many IMHO, who prescribe 'science' as the answer to everything, and treat scientific papers as the bible (They also cherry pick the scientific papers they like, and ignore the ones they don't, just like religious folks do). Also, the link you cite for climate change is 404, but I would expect the only real bone of contention is whether any change in the climate is caused by humans or not. Are there really people who deny the climate is changing?
- IgorPartola 12y ago
  Yes. People who do not believe in evolution are holding back progress. They are making everyone's quality of life worse through their sheer ignorance. People who do not believe in global warming are even worse. I will literally suffocate in my lifetime because of these imbicils. I suppose in some philosophical sense, no we don't all need to agree, but in a practical sense if we want to survive and thrive as a species, we must.
  - tedunangst 12y ago
    It's extremely hard for me to imagine how my quality of life would improve if my neighbor started believing in evolution. Perhaps you can provide an example?
    - acadien 12y ago
      Its about an educated and critical thinking public. A public that approaches everything with a critical eye is less susceptible to political pandering and more accepting of good science and evidence/data based laws. The average person doesn't know how to interpret a bar graph and has no clue what a good source of data looks like. Agreeing on a specific point, such as evolution, is just a symptom of the larger problem.
    - 12y ago
ExpiredLink 12y ago
> When: 43% of americans don't believe in evolution. I don't "believe in" evolution and I'm not a creationist!
- Retra 12y ago
  Evolution happens to be an observed natural law. Like gravity or heat dissipation. If I said "I don't believe in heat dissipation" you'd think I was just as much a moron as I would be.

by elviejo 12y ago

kiba 12y ago

It isn't really about scientific ignorance but as to what tribe(s) you belong to or what authorities you trust. To believe in evolution is to contradict their beliefs in God. Most people on HN didn't reasoned out the chain of evidence that lead to us to believe in evolution, yet they probably believe in the theory of evolution.

protomyth 12y ago
"To believe in evolution is to contradict their beliefs in God." Once again, no. Stop spreading this tripe. Catholic doctrine for example is quite clear a belief in evolution does not contradict church doctrine. This is the kind of statement that tries to create a conflict where one shouldn't be.
- kiba 12y ago
  For people who believe that evolution is false, it's a contradiction of their beliefs in God.
- 10098 12y ago
  > Catholic doctrine for example is quite clear a belief in evolution does not contradict church doctrine. Of course they are, they have to adapt. Who would go to church if they still insisted that the sun revolves around the earth? Just goes to show that God begins where true knowledge ends.
  - jdefr89 12y ago
    You are aware the Big Bang and many other scientific principles/theories were brought about by Catholic priests right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre Science and religion are not intrinsically at odds with each other please stop spreading that extreme non-sense
    - 10098 12y ago
      Tell it to this guy: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/saudiarabia/11419428/Watch-Saudi-cleric-tells-students-Earth-does-not-rotate.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/saudiar... Or tell it to this girl's father: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tema.ru%2Ftravel%2Fturkmenistan-6%2F https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&tl=en&u=h... (scroll down). This is modern times, by the way. In 2015, there are people who treat women as subhuman beings due to religious reasons. Please tell me more how religion doesn't go hand-in-hand with ignorance. US isn't the only country in the world, and Christianity isn't the only religion. Christianity has been (and continues to be) watered down to be able to exist in modern western society, that is why you are able to say that it's not at odds with science. Back in the day, if you dared questioning the geocentric model, you'd be burned at the stake.
    - Retra 12y ago
      They absolutely are, and pretending otherwise doesn't make it so. Scientific descriptions of reality are required to adhere to strong principles of information conservation. Religious beliefs are, both by definition and in practice, required to reject such principles. If that isn't 'incompatibility,' then the word is meaningless.

reasonish 12y ago

I can see the worry with vaccination, as it directly affects everyone, but does everyone necessarily have to agree on the other two issues? Is it a real issue if someone is doing really good things for society, being an excellent person, but happens to disagree with you about evolution or climate change? Science is getting to be its own fundamental religion for many IMHO, who prescribe 'science' as the answer to everything, and treat scientific papers as the bible (They also cherry pick the scientific papers they like, and ignore the ones they don't, just like religious folks do). Also, the link you cite for climate change is 404, but I would expect the only real bone of contention is whether any change in the climate is caused by humans or not. Are there really people who deny the climate is changing?

IgorPartola 12y ago
Yes. People who do not believe in evolution are holding back progress. They are making everyone's quality of life worse through their sheer ignorance. People who do not believe in global warming are even worse. I will literally suffocate in my lifetime because of these imbicils. I suppose in some philosophical sense, no we don't all need to agree, but in a practical sense if we want to survive and thrive as a species, we must.
- tedunangst 12y ago
  It's extremely hard for me to imagine how my quality of life would improve if my neighbor started believing in evolution. Perhaps you can provide an example?
  - acadien 12y ago
    Its about an educated and critical thinking public. A public that approaches everything with a critical eye is less susceptible to political pandering and more accepting of good science and evidence/data based laws. The average person doesn't know how to interpret a bar graph and has no clue what a good source of data looks like. Agreeing on a specific point, such as evolution, is just a symptom of the larger problem.
  - 12y ago

ExpiredLink 12y ago

> When: 43% of americans don't believe in evolution. I don't "believe in" evolution and I'm not a creationist!

Retra 12y ago
Evolution happens to be an observed natural law. Like gravity or heat dissipation. If I said "I don't believe in heat dissipation" you'd think I was just as much a moron as I would be.