4 ms·

Newbie wants to exit Google apps set up email etc.

5 points by biglucy 12y ago

debating if i'm crazy to think i can set up my own server / email or should depend on outside service. want privacy seems like it's sketchy unless you set up your own server... thoughts?

getdavidhiggins 12y ago
Have a read: http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/google-has-most-of-my-email-because-it-has-all-of-yours http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/google-has-most-of-my-email-bec... As with all homebrew things, it is possible. The only caveat is the time spent hardening the server, and time is always against us, my friend.
- biglucy 12y ago
  thank you. does seem rather pointless after that read. encryption seems like the solution..
- wishiknew 12y ago
  On the other hand, if nobody's ever leaving Google, Google will sure keep its access to almost everybody's mail. And I don't agree with the time argument. I ordered a VPS a few weeks ago (mainly to host my websites) and it didn't take me more than ten minutes to create an email account through a web interface. And with Roundcube, I don't have to deal with Google deciding it suddenly wants to organize my mail in "tabs" or revamp the UI to the latest design trend.
  - getdavidhiggins 12y ago
    I don't mean installing the software, I mean hardening the box so it's not a sitting duck. It takes time. Sure, there are fire-and-forget ways to setup mail software like Roundcube, but I am referring to VPSes themselves. There are innumerable things that can go wrong. I will outline a two of the most (usually overlooked) ones: Origin Shield: You don't want the raw IP of a box anywhere near the public Internet. Attackers can scan for IPs if they want an IP, but they should never have to simply ping a server and its IP is in plain sight. Auto-update: The box should respond to the current threat landscape. There was a massive uptick in sysadmins logging into old and forgotten boxes when Heartbleed came out. You want to be able to auto-patch and very rarely (if ever) SSH into a box. Those are just two of the things I've learned the hard way recently, and yeah; they're probably obvious low hanging fruit stuff. But the list goes on...
    - wishiknew 12y ago
      Have you been hacked? Mind sharing some more details? I might be in a honeymoon period with my VPS right now, sure. But Google has shut down Gmail accounts for no reason, too. There are always going to be risks on both sides.
brudgers 12y ago
Since SMTP email is sent in plaintext by default, what people send you can never be assumed to be private. Setting up your own server doesn't change that. Also SMTP email is "best effort" which means that the route between sender and receiver is arbitrary. This means that you can't control which servers an email sent to you passes through. Setting up your own email server doesn't change that. As a sender, you can exert some control of these things, like encrypting your communications but that only works if the person receiving the email is willing to decrypt it. Setting up your own email server doesn't change that either. For other apps like word processors and spreadsheets, it is of course very practical to set up these locally using FOSS or commercial alternatives. Once you share them by email of course all email issues apply. TANSTAAFL. Good luck.
- biglucy 12y ago
  thank you for your percipient comments. encryption it is. what do you think of lavaboom. i guess we have to wait for dark mail protocol
mpnordland 12y ago
Well, I went and made my own email server, and as of last week, I only depend on google calendar, which in a month, that will be over too. I've run my own email since last fall, and have had no problems. It's not that hard either. I followed this tutorial: http://sealedabstract.com/code/nsa-proof-your-e-mail-in-2-hours/ http://sealedabstract.com/code/nsa-proof-your-e-mail-in-2-ho...
toomuchtodo 12y ago
Pay Fastmail and get on with better things you have to do. It's about $40/year to replace what Gmail does. Assuming your time is worth at least that, can you manage your own email server for less than an hour a year? https://www.fastmail.com/signup/personal.html https://www.fastmail.com/signup/personal.html
- touristtam 12y ago
  Where are the server located? Because of the main reason for quitting gmail would certainly be server location vs reaching distance from NSA and Co. At least for me.
  - toomuchtodo 12y ago
    Unfortunately in the US. http://blog.fastmail.com/2013/10/07/fastmails-servers-are-in-the-us-what-this-means-for-you/ http://blog.fastmail.com/2013/10/07/fastmails-servers-are-in... Note that just because your servers aren't in the US, doesn't mean they're out of reach of the NSA's surveillance apparatus.
NeutronBoy 12y ago
In the last few years, for various reasons, I've been through Google Apps, Zoho, back to Google Apps, Outlook.com, now Fastmail. After 6 weeks I can say that Fastmail is by far the best and I'm sad I didn't try them sooner. The only thing that's missing (IMO) is Exchange-compatible push email (you can do push if you use their app, but if you want to use another app it's POP or IMAP pull). The interface is lightening fast, as is sending and receiving email, and their blog shows a great technical understanding of their product (and it's based in my hometown so happy to support local businesses!)
- sjs382 12y ago
  I recently switched my business-related email away from Google Apps (I was using domain aliases, which I felt was less-than-professional). I switched to Zoho, and I've been happy so far, but I'm curious--what was it about Zoho that you didn't like? Or what didn't Zoho have that you missed?
  - NeutronBoy 12y ago
    I can't recall exactly, but I wasn't impressed with their web interface, and I think I was having long delays with push email to my phone. Also, it seemed 'heavy' - I just wanted email and calendar. (this would have been a few years ago though, so YMMV)

5 points by biglucy 12y ago

debating if i'm crazy to think i can set up my own server / email or should depend on outside service. want privacy seems like it's sketchy unless you set up your own server... thoughts?

getdavidhiggins 12y ago

Have a read: http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/google-has-most-of-my-email-because-it-has-all-of-yours http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/google-has-most-of-my-email-bec... As with all homebrew things, it is possible. The only caveat is the time spent hardening the server, and time is always against us, my friend.

biglucy 12y ago
thank you. does seem rather pointless after that read. encryption seems like the solution..
wishiknew 12y ago
On the other hand, if nobody's ever leaving Google, Google will sure keep its access to almost everybody's mail. And I don't agree with the time argument. I ordered a VPS a few weeks ago (mainly to host my websites) and it didn't take me more than ten minutes to create an email account through a web interface. And with Roundcube, I don't have to deal with Google deciding it suddenly wants to organize my mail in "tabs" or revamp the UI to the latest design trend.
- getdavidhiggins 12y ago
  I don't mean installing the software, I mean hardening the box so it's not a sitting duck. It takes time. Sure, there are fire-and-forget ways to setup mail software like Roundcube, but I am referring to VPSes themselves. There are innumerable things that can go wrong. I will outline a two of the most (usually overlooked) ones: Origin Shield: You don't want the raw IP of a box anywhere near the public Internet. Attackers can scan for IPs if they want an IP, but they should never have to simply ping a server and its IP is in plain sight. Auto-update: The box should respond to the current threat landscape. There was a massive uptick in sysadmins logging into old and forgotten boxes when Heartbleed came out. You want to be able to auto-patch and very rarely (if ever) SSH into a box. Those are just two of the things I've learned the hard way recently, and yeah; they're probably obvious low hanging fruit stuff. But the list goes on...
  - wishiknew 12y ago
    Have you been hacked? Mind sharing some more details? I might be in a honeymoon period with my VPS right now, sure. But Google has shut down Gmail accounts for no reason, too. There are always going to be risks on both sides.

brudgers 12y ago

Since SMTP email is sent in plaintext by default, what people send you can never be assumed to be private. Setting up your own server doesn't change that. Also SMTP email is "best effort" which means that the route between sender and receiver is arbitrary. This means that you can't control which servers an email sent to you passes through. Setting up your own email server doesn't change that. As a sender, you can exert some control of these things, like encrypting your communications but that only works if the person receiving the email is willing to decrypt it. Setting up your own email server doesn't change that either. For other apps like word processors and spreadsheets, it is of course very practical to set up these locally using FOSS or commercial alternatives. Once you share them by email of course all email issues apply. TANSTAAFL. Good luck.

biglucy 12y ago
thank you for your percipient comments. encryption it is. what do you think of lavaboom. i guess we have to wait for dark mail protocol

mpnordland 12y ago

Well, I went and made my own email server, and as of last week, I only depend on google calendar, which in a month, that will be over too. I've run my own email since last fall, and have had no problems. It's not that hard either. I followed this tutorial: http://sealedabstract.com/code/nsa-proof-your-e-mail-in-2-hours/ http://sealedabstract.com/code/nsa-proof-your-e-mail-in-2-ho...

toomuchtodo 12y ago

Pay Fastmail and get on with better things you have to do. It's about $40/year to replace what Gmail does. Assuming your time is worth at least that, can you manage your own email server for less than an hour a year? https://www.fastmail.com/signup/personal.html https://www.fastmail.com/signup/personal.html

touristtam 12y ago
Where are the server located? Because of the main reason for quitting gmail would certainly be server location vs reaching distance from NSA and Co. At least for me.
- toomuchtodo 12y ago
  Unfortunately in the US. http://blog.fastmail.com/2013/10/07/fastmails-servers-are-in-the-us-what-this-means-for-you/ http://blog.fastmail.com/2013/10/07/fastmails-servers-are-in... Note that just because your servers aren't in the US, doesn't mean they're out of reach of the NSA's surveillance apparatus.

NeutronBoy 12y ago

In the last few years, for various reasons, I've been through Google Apps, Zoho, back to Google Apps, Outlook.com, now Fastmail. After 6 weeks I can say that Fastmail is by far the best and I'm sad I didn't try them sooner. The only thing that's missing (IMO) is Exchange-compatible push email (you can do push if you use their app, but if you want to use another app it's POP or IMAP pull). The interface is lightening fast, as is sending and receiving email, and their blog shows a great technical understanding of their product (and it's based in my hometown so happy to support local businesses!)

sjs382 12y ago
I recently switched my business-related email away from Google Apps (I was using domain aliases, which I felt was less-than-professional). I switched to Zoho, and I've been happy so far, but I'm curious--what was it about Zoho that you didn't like? Or what didn't Zoho have that you missed?
- NeutronBoy 12y ago
  I can't recall exactly, but I wasn't impressed with their web interface, and I think I was having long delays with push email to my phone. Also, it seemed 'heavy' - I just wanted email and calendar. (this would have been a few years ago though, so YMMV)