4 ms·

I dropped out of MIT both to do a startup overseas (ITAR) and because my parents wouldn't contribute any of the "expected family contribution" and I couldn't ge

by rdl 12y ago

I dropped out of MIT both to do a startup overseas (ITAR) and because my parents wouldn't contribute any of the "expected family contribution" and I couldn't get enough loans on my own. Rather than all the crazy games, I'd prefer if education were genuinely market priced, or if individuals could take reasonable debt loads or sign indenture agreements. A commercial organization should be allowed to do something like ROTC; paying an undergrad full college costs in exchange for a guaranteed employee for 2-4y post graduation at market rate.

TylerE 12y ago
That doesn't really work when the are already more graduates than jobs in many fields.
- phazmatis 12y ago
  Heard of STEM?
  - vlasev 12y ago
    What about it? Are there actually more jobs than graduates there?
  - TylerE 12y ago
    Yes, and I see fresh faced engineers and programmers going unemployed for over a year out of school, all the time. Seriously, pretty much the only field right now with a serious demand > supply condition is nursing, and MDs willing to do general family practice rather than higher-paying specialties.
    - rdl 12y ago
      I don't see unemployed vaguely competent cs grads unless they are unwilling or unable to relocate.
      - TylerE 12y ago
        Many people can't/don't want to uproot their entire life and move to some overpriced suburb of SF.
        briandear 12y ago
        What college kid has 'an entire life' to uproot? If you go into oceanography, hard to complain if the jobs are near the ocean; similar with other professions. You have to be willing to go where the jobs are.
        emddudley 12y ago
        Anyone with relatives!?
    - fsk 12y ago
      The shortage of doctors is not due to market conditions. The government limits the supply of slots in medical schools and residencies, which then limits the number of new doctors.
EugeneOZ 12y ago
Almost any organization can find employee much faster than 2-4 years. So there is no sane reasons to pay for somebody's education, especially when there are chances that person can be expelled.
- rdl 12y ago
  Big companies like Google or others are likely to continue to need ever increasing numbers of people. If dropping $100k upfront guaranteed them someone in 4y it could be worth it. If they could structure contracts same as rotc, so if you leave you owe repayment, it could work. If they had this program they would probably prefer Waterloo coop style students; get them for 2y out of 6y while in school, and then after. Loan guarantees would probably be the most sane commercial way to do this. You are on the hook, but iff you join, we pay off your loans, and creditors could then reflect that in creditworthiness decisions.
  - EugeneOZ 12y ago
    In case of giants like Google - agree. Thanks.
morgante 12y ago
> A commercial organization should be allowed to do something like ROTC; paying an undergrad full college costs in exchange for a guaranteed employee for 2-4y post graduation at market rate. I'm fairly certain they can. In fact, tuition reimbursement programs aren't uncommon amongst elite employers.
- rdl 12y ago
  Generally those are for additional classes taken by current employees -- either individual classes or a graduate program. Very rarely would that be for a full undergrad degree, and wen less likely they would hire a high school dropout and pay for full time college tuition for 4y first. ROTC is pretty unique in that respect because they have legal force of government for the contract.
zo1 12y ago
The company I work for offers bursaries to undergrad students. If I'm not mistaken, they even offer guaranteed industry experience by employing them afterwards. Not exactly the same as your suggestion, but on-par. These things do exist, and higher education is not solely in the realm of government or colleges' doing. All it takes is for some sparky individual/group to implement it if the need is there. That is why it is very important to let the market price things using regular signals, instead of distorting it with government intervention. What I mean is that currently there is a big shortage here for good software developers. So companies are willing to spend money on training up, paying college fees, whatever it takes. On a side note. People are very wary of things such as "indenture agreements". It reminds them of slavery too much (I would hypothesize), as it seems they've conflated historically indentured workers with defacto slaves, despite consent.
therobot24 12y ago
> paying an undergrad full college costs in exchange for a guaranteed employee for 2-4y post graduation at market rate. Check out the SMART fellowship

by rdl 12y ago

TylerE 12y ago

That doesn't really work when the are already more graduates than jobs in many fields.

phazmatis 12y ago
Heard of STEM?
- vlasev 12y ago
  What about it? Are there actually more jobs than graduates there?
- TylerE 12y ago
  Yes, and I see fresh faced engineers and programmers going unemployed for over a year out of school, all the time. Seriously, pretty much the only field right now with a serious demand > supply condition is nursing, and MDs willing to do general family practice rather than higher-paying specialties.
  - rdl 12y ago
    I don't see unemployed vaguely competent cs grads unless they are unwilling or unable to relocate.
    - TylerE 12y ago
      Many people can't/don't want to uproot their entire life and move to some overpriced suburb of SF.
      - briandear 12y ago
        What college kid has 'an entire life' to uproot? If you go into oceanography, hard to complain if the jobs are near the ocean; similar with other professions. You have to be willing to go where the jobs are.
        emddudley 12y ago
        Anyone with relatives!?
  - fsk 12y ago
    The shortage of doctors is not due to market conditions. The government limits the supply of slots in medical schools and residencies, which then limits the number of new doctors.

EugeneOZ 12y ago

Almost any organization can find employee much faster than 2-4 years. So there is no sane reasons to pay for somebody's education, especially when there are chances that person can be expelled.

rdl 12y ago
Big companies like Google or others are likely to continue to need ever increasing numbers of people. If dropping $100k upfront guaranteed them someone in 4y it could be worth it. If they could structure contracts same as rotc, so if you leave you owe repayment, it could work. If they had this program they would probably prefer Waterloo coop style students; get them for 2y out of 6y while in school, and then after. Loan guarantees would probably be the most sane commercial way to do this. You are on the hook, but iff you join, we pay off your loans, and creditors could then reflect that in creditworthiness decisions.
- EugeneOZ 12y ago
  In case of giants like Google - agree. Thanks.

morgante 12y ago

> A commercial organization should be allowed to do something like ROTC; paying an undergrad full college costs in exchange for a guaranteed employee for 2-4y post graduation at market rate. I'm fairly certain they can. In fact, tuition reimbursement programs aren't uncommon amongst elite employers.

rdl 12y ago
Generally those are for additional classes taken by current employees -- either individual classes or a graduate program. Very rarely would that be for a full undergrad degree, and wen less likely they would hire a high school dropout and pay for full time college tuition for 4y first. ROTC is pretty unique in that respect because they have legal force of government for the contract.

zo1 12y ago

The company I work for offers bursaries to undergrad students. If I'm not mistaken, they even offer guaranteed industry experience by employing them afterwards. Not exactly the same as your suggestion, but on-par. These things do exist, and higher education is not solely in the realm of government or colleges' doing. All it takes is for some sparky individual/group to implement it if the need is there. That is why it is very important to let the market price things using regular signals, instead of distorting it with government intervention. What I mean is that currently there is a big shortage here for good software developers. So companies are willing to spend money on training up, paying college fees, whatever it takes. On a side note. People are very wary of things such as "indenture agreements". It reminds them of slavery too much (I would hypothesize), as it seems they've conflated historically indentured workers with defacto slaves, despite consent.

therobot24 12y ago

> paying an undergrad full college costs in exchange for a guaranteed employee for 2-4y post graduation at market rate. Check out the SMART fellowship