7 ms·

Essentially, colleges (and the government) expecting a family contribution to tuition meant I went into extensive debt on my own, though cosigned by my stepdad

Essentially, colleges (and the government) expecting a family contribution to tuition meant I went into extensive debt on my own, though cosigned by my stepdad (who made it clear he would in no way take on any of the financial obligation of the loans) for college. Most of my friends' parents were the same way, and did not contribute to their children's college (and I'm not sure where all these kids whose parents are paying for their college are even going, really... or what kind of money those parents must be making to be able to pay outright for college tuition) -- at a top tier U.S. school. In an engineering program. Working at a thrift store full time making minimum wage and going to engineering school full time for the first two years, then doing tech support full time and going to engineering school full time for the last two years was no joke, and I still have debt remaining, two years out of school with a good job. Why should it be the parents' income that anyone cares about? Students are expected to contribute? Don't make me laugh. It's their education, they are of majority age, they likely will be paying for it and then some. How are PARENTS expected to contribute at all? Mine honestly did not and do not make enough money to have any left over after taking care of my two younger siblings (ten years younger), and yet on the FAFSA right there, an "expected family contribution". Edit: they do, of course, make enough money combined that the government expects that they'd want to send their kid to college and could theoretically contribute something to it. They did what they could, but that wasn't what fulfilled expectations laid down by the Powers That Be.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
downandout 12y ago
It's extremely difficult to gain admittance to a place like Stanford if your parents are not supportive of your educational ambitions. This is both because your academic results earlier in life (upon which admittance would be based) will tend to reflect an unsupportive family, and a place like Stanford wants students with supportive families. That's why parental support matters.
- sporkenfang 12y ago
  Supportive of one's educational ambitions ~= having the money to pay for one's educational ambitions to be realized.
  - harryh 12y ago
    Sure, which is why Stanford has programs like this one. But for parents that do have the money it makes sense to expect them to spend some of it.
- donatj 12y ago
  Because kids with bad parents don't deserve good educations. Sigh.
  - downandout 12y ago
    Of course they do, but most won't get it. It's one of life's many crappy realities. There's a line from a song..."Where it ends...usually depends on where you start". There are of course exceptions, but this generally holds true.
  - Futurebot 12y ago
    Curently an unfortunate reality: https://medium.com/@opirmusic/why-software-developers-should-still-choose-to-go-to-university-if-someone-else-is-paying-45091d22acc1 https://medium.com/@opirmusic/why-software-developers-should...
- marincounty 12y ago
  Or, maybe Stanford counts on parential guilt? They have quite a big savings account. (Stanford’s $21.4 billion endowment (as of Aug. 31, 2014), and grateful donors give the school close to a billion dollars a year. I don't know how many full scholarships Stanford gives away per year, but I hope it's a lot? (http://facts.stanford.edu/administration/finances http://facts.stanford.edu/administration/finances)
jsprogrammer 12y ago
>though cosigned by my stepdad (who made it clear he would in no way take on any of the financial obligation of the loans) Co-signing is taking on the financial obligation.
- chengiz 12y ago
  Only if signer is delinquent. People often cosign because they are family (without stepdad cosigning he wouldnt have got the loan). But also then you dont make them pay because they're family.
dedward 12y ago
If he co-signed then he 100%, absolutely took on the financial obligation. If you don't pay, he's legally, 100% on the hook for it.
- sporkenfang 12y ago
  ...legally, yes. However, he couldn't afford it, and I haven't gone delinquent, ever. In practical terms, he made it clear that he was cosigning because without that action I wouldn't have been able to afford college. He could not, and does not to this day, have the money to pay down those loans (which I am currently paying down). However, he did have one thing he could offer: a reasonable credit history. Essentially he lent me credibility. (And then told me nobody would ever find the body if I didn't pay down my debt.)
  - ninguem2 12y ago
    Charming gentleman...
  - kelukelugames 12y ago
    I was incredibly bitter too when my parents left me hanging and I had to pay for most of tuition and rent. But then I realized lots of people pay for their own education. I certainly didn't achieve the impossible. Think of your stepdad's stance as tough love and motivation.
    - sporkenfang 12y ago
      I am not bitter in the slightest, I'm just astounded that so many people expected their parents to pay for their college (and in turn expect to pay for their adult offspring's education). Simply put, it doesn't compute.
analog31 12y ago
Why should it be the parents' income that anyone cares about? Why did Willie Sutton rob banks?
- AnthonyMouse 12y ago
  The trouble with that logic is that it doesn't work when the effects stack. This is a good case in point. According to the article families who make less than $125,000 pay nothing and those who make $225,000 or more pay the full amount, listed as $65,000. Now let's take the hypothetical family where one parent makes $125,000 and the other makes $100,000 and look at what happens. If the second parent keeps his or her job, this is where the $100,000 salary goes: 28% federal income tax ($28,000) 9.3% California state income tax ($9,300) Stanford annual cost ($65,000) Total: ($102,300) In other words, that parent is working a full time job in order to lose $2300. And that's assuming there are no other taxes or loss of benefits that come from the higher income, which there are, and that there is only one child in college. It seems like this can't possibly have been the intended outcome.
  - nightski 12y ago
    The real answer imo? Stanford is a luxury, and not even a particularly compelling one at that. Are there amazing professors and cutting edge research at the university? Of course. But is it necessary? In my opinion it would be really hard to make a case for it.
    - vlasev 12y ago
      For example, the name on the paper when you graduate has to be one of the more cynical compelling reasons. The connections you'll hopefully make there as a student will be invaluable later in life. Some of the most ambitious people make it to these distinguished institution and those people go on even further after they graduate.
  - jkestner 12y ago
    Eventually, schools are going to start looking at grandparents' assets. It will become the norm to pay for school from their wills, after universities lobby to have an estate tax break if used for education.
JabavuAdams 12y ago
Because it's absolutely the norm for higher-income professional parents to pay for their kids' tuition. I just assume that I will pay for my kids' undergrad. It's the norm where I live.
- sporkenfang 12y ago
  Is it? I graduated two years ago, and this is of course anecdotal, but the only kids I knew that actually got their tuition paid for had trust funds, didn't pay for anything themselves, and had never held any kind of job. How do you imagine you're going to be able to even as a likely relatively well-paid individual, if tuition rates keep climbing?
  - JabavuAdams 12y ago
    I'm in Canada. When I went to University 1991-1996, tuition + books + etc., but not board at a top Canadian engineering school was $2500 per year. These days it's about $14500. My wife and I currently pay about $25000 / year for daycare for two kids. Can't save too long for daycare, but can for Uni. We have minimal debt, and the house will be paid off by the time the kids go to University. EDIT> Daycare is as expensive as University. I did not anticipate this.
    - vlasev 12y ago
      > $14500 This seems rather steep and definitely not the norm at Canadian universities. Take a look for example at UBC [1]. It's about 2-3 more than the actual number for most programs for domestic students. And also rather low for international students. It's similar for U of T [2] and McGill [3]. > $25000/year for daycare for two kids Wow more than a 1000 dollars per kid? That's quite a bit. Is that typical? [1]: http://students.ubc.ca/enrolment/finances/tuition/undergraduate-tuition-fees http://students.ubc.ca/enrolment/finances/tuition/undergradu... [2]: http://www.adm.utoronto.ca/cost-of-university/ http://www.adm.utoronto.ca/cost-of-university/ [3]: http://www.mcgill.ca/student-accounts/tuition-charges/fallwinter-term-tuition-and-fees/undergraduate-fees http://www.mcgill.ca/student-accounts/tuition-charges/fallwi...
jkestner 12y ago
I don't get it, either. My siblings and I were legally adults, so why were our parents responsible for anything? We got loans, worked jobs, and were responsible to no one else for bad grades or extra semesters. The other responses say, "Because it's expected." That doesn't answer the question. Have attitudes shifted? As education's become more expensive, I wouldn't be surprised if colleges have marketed the idea that good parents pay for their adult child's education, in order to make sure that they have business as they jack up prices.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- consz 12y ago
  If your goal is to help your child get the best outcome they can get from college, its way more beneficial to have them focus on doing well in school and having the time to network as well as possible (especially in a school like Stanford) than trying to make them work what's likely a shitty job while they're in school to help pay for their tuition.
  - jkestner 12y ago
    I think the goal is to help my child get the best outcome from life. Even though I think college today is a bad deal, I'm not going to go full Thiel - I agree with you that networking is the critical function of college, and there's exposure to a variety of fields. I think college is at its best as a petri dish for serendipity. You shouldn't have to settle for shitty jobs in school, and focus on schoolwork is overrated. I honed graphic design, salesmanship, and web design skills from the three I had. The last actually was a distraction from school, but then "web" became a paying job for me when it wasn't in the school curriculum. The constraint of needing to work created a bunch of opportunities.
kelukelugames 12y ago
Hey I have a sob story too. My parents own a 3 million dollar house and sent my sister to Harker for 20 grand a year, but only give me 20k total for college. I mowed lawns, washed dishes, and worked retail before finding internships. But you know what? I still have more built in advantages than kids on need based scholarships. I'm luck my parents raised me well enough to get into good schools.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

downandout 12y ago

It's extremely difficult to gain admittance to a place like Stanford if your parents are not supportive of your educational ambitions. This is both because your academic results earlier in life (upon which admittance would be based) will tend to reflect an unsupportive family, and a place like Stanford wants students with supportive families. That's why parental support matters.

sporkenfang 12y ago
Supportive of one's educational ambitions ~= having the money to pay for one's educational ambitions to be realized.
- harryh 12y ago
  Sure, which is why Stanford has programs like this one. But for parents that do have the money it makes sense to expect them to spend some of it.
donatj 12y ago
Because kids with bad parents don't deserve good educations. Sigh.
- downandout 12y ago
  Of course they do, but most won't get it. It's one of life's many crappy realities. There's a line from a song..."Where it ends...usually depends on where you start". There are of course exceptions, but this generally holds true.
- Futurebot 12y ago
  Curently an unfortunate reality: https://medium.com/@opirmusic/why-software-developers-should-still-choose-to-go-to-university-if-someone-else-is-paying-45091d22acc1 https://medium.com/@opirmusic/why-software-developers-should...
marincounty 12y ago
Or, maybe Stanford counts on parential guilt? They have quite a big savings account. (Stanford’s $21.4 billion endowment (as of Aug. 31, 2014), and grateful donors give the school close to a billion dollars a year. I don't know how many full scholarships Stanford gives away per year, but I hope it's a lot? (http://facts.stanford.edu/administration/finances http://facts.stanford.edu/administration/finances)

jsprogrammer 12y ago

>though cosigned by my stepdad (who made it clear he would in no way take on any of the financial obligation of the loans) Co-signing is taking on the financial obligation.

chengiz 12y ago
Only if signer is delinquent. People often cosign because they are family (without stepdad cosigning he wouldnt have got the loan). But also then you dont make them pay because they're family.

dedward 12y ago

If he co-signed then he 100%, absolutely took on the financial obligation. If you don't pay, he's legally, 100% on the hook for it.

sporkenfang 12y ago
...legally, yes. However, he couldn't afford it, and I haven't gone delinquent, ever. In practical terms, he made it clear that he was cosigning because without that action I wouldn't have been able to afford college. He could not, and does not to this day, have the money to pay down those loans (which I am currently paying down). However, he did have one thing he could offer: a reasonable credit history. Essentially he lent me credibility. (And then told me nobody would ever find the body if I didn't pay down my debt.)
- ninguem2 12y ago
  Charming gentleman...
- kelukelugames 12y ago
  I was incredibly bitter too when my parents left me hanging and I had to pay for most of tuition and rent. But then I realized lots of people pay for their own education. I certainly didn't achieve the impossible. Think of your stepdad's stance as tough love and motivation.
  - sporkenfang 12y ago
    I am not bitter in the slightest, I'm just astounded that so many people expected their parents to pay for their college (and in turn expect to pay for their adult offspring's education). Simply put, it doesn't compute.

analog31 12y ago

Why should it be the parents' income that anyone cares about? Why did Willie Sutton rob banks?

AnthonyMouse 12y ago
The trouble with that logic is that it doesn't work when the effects stack. This is a good case in point. According to the article families who make less than $125,000 pay nothing and those who make $225,000 or more pay the full amount, listed as $65,000. Now let's take the hypothetical family where one parent makes $125,000 and the other makes $100,000 and look at what happens. If the second parent keeps his or her job, this is where the $100,000 salary goes: 28% federal income tax ($28,000) 9.3% California state income tax ($9,300) Stanford annual cost ($65,000) Total: ($102,300) In other words, that parent is working a full time job in order to lose $2300. And that's assuming there are no other taxes or loss of benefits that come from the higher income, which there are, and that there is only one child in college. It seems like this can't possibly have been the intended outcome.
- nightski 12y ago
  The real answer imo? Stanford is a luxury, and not even a particularly compelling one at that. Are there amazing professors and cutting edge research at the university? Of course. But is it necessary? In my opinion it would be really hard to make a case for it.
  - vlasev 12y ago
    For example, the name on the paper when you graduate has to be one of the more cynical compelling reasons. The connections you'll hopefully make there as a student will be invaluable later in life. Some of the most ambitious people make it to these distinguished institution and those people go on even further after they graduate.
- jkestner 12y ago
  Eventually, schools are going to start looking at grandparents' assets. It will become the norm to pay for school from their wills, after universities lobby to have an estate tax break if used for education.

JabavuAdams 12y ago

Because it's absolutely the norm for higher-income professional parents to pay for their kids' tuition. I just assume that I will pay for my kids' undergrad. It's the norm where I live.

sporkenfang 12y ago
Is it? I graduated two years ago, and this is of course anecdotal, but the only kids I knew that actually got their tuition paid for had trust funds, didn't pay for anything themselves, and had never held any kind of job. How do you imagine you're going to be able to even as a likely relatively well-paid individual, if tuition rates keep climbing?
- JabavuAdams 12y ago
  I'm in Canada. When I went to University 1991-1996, tuition + books + etc., but not board at a top Canadian engineering school was $2500 per year. These days it's about $14500. My wife and I currently pay about $25000 / year for daycare for two kids. Can't save too long for daycare, but can for Uni. We have minimal debt, and the house will be paid off by the time the kids go to University. EDIT> Daycare is as expensive as University. I did not anticipate this.
  - vlasev 12y ago
    > $14500 This seems rather steep and definitely not the norm at Canadian universities. Take a look for example at UBC [1]. It's about 2-3 more than the actual number for most programs for domestic students. And also rather low for international students. It's similar for U of T [2] and McGill [3]. > $25000/year for daycare for two kids Wow more than a 1000 dollars per kid? That's quite a bit. Is that typical? [1]: http://students.ubc.ca/enrolment/finances/tuition/undergraduate-tuition-fees http://students.ubc.ca/enrolment/finances/tuition/undergradu... [2]: http://www.adm.utoronto.ca/cost-of-university/ http://www.adm.utoronto.ca/cost-of-university/ [3]: http://www.mcgill.ca/student-accounts/tuition-charges/fallwinter-term-tuition-and-fees/undergraduate-fees http://www.mcgill.ca/student-accounts/tuition-charges/fallwi...

jkestner 12y ago

I don't get it, either. My siblings and I were legally adults, so why were our parents responsible for anything? We got loans, worked jobs, and were responsible to no one else for bad grades or extra semesters. The other responses say, "Because it's expected." That doesn't answer the question. Have attitudes shifted? As education's become more expensive, I wouldn't be surprised if colleges have marketed the idea that good parents pay for their adult child's education, in order to make sure that they have business as they jack up prices.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
consz 12y ago
If your goal is to help your child get the best outcome they can get from college, its way more beneficial to have them focus on doing well in school and having the time to network as well as possible (especially in a school like Stanford) than trying to make them work what's likely a shitty job while they're in school to help pay for their tuition.
- jkestner 12y ago
  I think the goal is to help my child get the best outcome from life. Even though I think college today is a bad deal, I'm not going to go full Thiel - I agree with you that networking is the critical function of college, and there's exposure to a variety of fields. I think college is at its best as a petri dish for serendipity. You shouldn't have to settle for shitty jobs in school, and focus on schoolwork is overrated. I honed graphic design, salesmanship, and web design skills from the three I had. The last actually was a distraction from school, but then "web" became a paying job for me when it wasn't in the school curriculum. The constraint of needing to work created a bunch of opportunities.

kelukelugames 12y ago

Hey I have a sob story too. My parents own a 3 million dollar house and sent my sister to Harker for 20 grand a year, but only give me 20k total for college. I mowed lawns, washed dishes, and worked retail before finding internships. But you know what? I still have more built in advantages than kids on need based scholarships. I'm luck my parents raised me well enough to get into good schools.