4 ms·

By gum, the West is wrong about Singapore

36 points by ValentineC 12y ago

ableal 12y ago
"Miss Ann Thrope" packs in a few nicely barbed lines, among them "country that was not farsighted nor fortunate enough to avoid being charming".
ZanyProgrammer 12y ago
Authoritarianism is okay as long as its in the guise of an MBA.
- jlarocco 12y ago
  How about we let Singapore fix their "authoritarian" government, and we focus on fixing ours? I think it's getting increasingly hard to take the United States and Europe seriously when we bend over and take it from the CIA and NSA, and then criticize other countries for having "authoritarian" governments. I'd take a chewing gum ban over an illegally wire tapped phone any day.
  - ZanyProgrammer 12y ago
    So apparently its a logical impossibility to you to be against all kinds of authoritarianism. And since you are American it seems, you're contradicting yourself by mentioning Europe. Let Europe fix their own "authoritarian" governments, and we focus on fixing the United States?
jkot 12y ago
I would say US are far more authoritarian state with over 1% of male population in prisons.
- mousa 12y ago
  A lot of those 1% would be executed for their crimes in Singapore. They aren't in prison because they know the severity of the punishments and thus avoid the crimes.
  - SiVal 12y ago
    The felons would be executed, while misdemeanors would often be punished by caning.
kingkawn 12y ago
damn she hates everyone except people exactly like herself
iopq 12y ago
What did I just read? I don't even know what the gum is referring to. This article assumes that I know something about Singapore. I don't. I have no idea what I'm reading.
- alwaysdoit 12y ago
  Someone should make a tool where you could type in keywords like "gum Singapore" and it would return a list of websites where you could find out more about it.
- msh 12y ago
  This https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9280881 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9280881
- SiVal 12y ago
  That's because it was written by a Singaporean for Singaporeans in Singapore, and they all know well that she is referring to the national ban on selling chewing gum. It was said to be a way to keep the newly built subway system clean, but it has become the go-to symbol of the extent of the nanny state in Singapore when a foreign journalist writes about such things.
- jwdunne 12y ago
  It's a play on words. "By gum" is a popular phrase in the north of England, Lancashire I think. It's perhaps old fashioned, both my granddads were from Preston and used it a lot but rarely hear it nowadays among young folk from Lancashire. From the way it's used, it's the same as "bloody hell" or "fucking hell" though deemed far less harsh. Singapore also banned chuddy.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
smegel 12y ago
> “Quaint” means paddy fields where white-collar jobs should be. “Plenty of character” means the roads are not paved and you get diarrhoea from the ice cubes. This is complete rubbish. In the last year or so, I traveled to Hong Kong and Singapore on a holiday, for about the same amount of time each. Hong Kong was amazing, mind-blowing, while in Singapore I felt like I could have been walking through a suburb of Sydney, except where the beer cost $12 instead of $6. And from what I understand, Hong Kong is richer than Singapore, and not a unpaved road through a rice paddy in sight. I am planning on going back to HK soon, whereas I don't even plan on going back to Singapore.
- scribu 12y ago
  I think that's kind of the point the author is making: westerners don't expect Singapore to feel like a western country; they expect it to be "exotic". > And from what I understand, Hong Kong is richer than Singapore No, it's not (according to their respective Wikipedia entries).
mikerichards 12y ago
So everybody and their brother can criticize "the west" (well, specifically the U.S.), but oh no, you westerners need to accept all other cultures carte blanche...because PC and other stuff. This reminds me of "protected classes" in the U.S. and how can they spew all the vitriol they want against white men, republicans, etc...but oh by, if some white guy (especially a right-wing white guy) criticizes a black, a woman, a gay, etc...watch out. The P.C., anti-free speech gestapo at MSNBC and other places will be all over you.
cylinder 12y ago
The Guardian opinion pieces are best ignored.
- scribu 12y ago
  Why?
m0llusk 12y ago
The suicide rate in Singapore is far too high for this attitude to be tolerable. They have succeeded in burying their dangerous social differences in wealth generating behavior, but at a terrible cost. Talking about the gum issue up front makes sense because so many have heard about that and it is a good example of the kind of decisions that have made Singapore different from other places.

36 points by ValentineC 12y ago

"Miss Ann Thrope" packs in a few nicely barbed lines, among them "country that was not farsighted nor fortunate enough to avoid being charming".

ZanyProgrammer 12y ago

Authoritarianism is okay as long as its in the guise of an MBA.

jlarocco 12y ago
How about we let Singapore fix their "authoritarian" government, and we focus on fixing ours? I think it's getting increasingly hard to take the United States and Europe seriously when we bend over and take it from the CIA and NSA, and then criticize other countries for having "authoritarian" governments. I'd take a chewing gum ban over an illegally wire tapped phone any day.
- ZanyProgrammer 12y ago
  So apparently its a logical impossibility to you to be against all kinds of authoritarianism. And since you are American it seems, you're contradicting yourself by mentioning Europe. Let Europe fix their own "authoritarian" governments, and we focus on fixing the United States?

jkot 12y ago

I would say US are far more authoritarian state with over 1% of male population in prisons.

mousa 12y ago
A lot of those 1% would be executed for their crimes in Singapore. They aren't in prison because they know the severity of the punishments and thus avoid the crimes.
- SiVal 12y ago
  The felons would be executed, while misdemeanors would often be punished by caning.

kingkawn 12y ago

damn she hates everyone except people exactly like herself

iopq 12y ago

What did I just read? I don't even know what the gum is referring to. This article assumes that I know something about Singapore. I don't. I have no idea what I'm reading.

alwaysdoit 12y ago
Someone should make a tool where you could type in keywords like "gum Singapore" and it would return a list of websites where you could find out more about it.
msh 12y ago
This https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9280881 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9280881
SiVal 12y ago
That's because it was written by a Singaporean for Singaporeans in Singapore, and they all know well that she is referring to the national ban on selling chewing gum. It was said to be a way to keep the newly built subway system clean, but it has become the go-to symbol of the extent of the nanny state in Singapore when a foreign journalist writes about such things.
jwdunne 12y ago
It's a play on words. "By gum" is a popular phrase in the north of England, Lancashire I think. It's perhaps old fashioned, both my granddads were from Preston and used it a lot but rarely hear it nowadays among young folk from Lancashire. From the way it's used, it's the same as "bloody hell" or "fucking hell" though deemed far less harsh. Singapore also banned chuddy.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

smegel 12y ago

> “Quaint” means paddy fields where white-collar jobs should be. “Plenty of character” means the roads are not paved and you get diarrhoea from the ice cubes. This is complete rubbish. In the last year or so, I traveled to Hong Kong and Singapore on a holiday, for about the same amount of time each. Hong Kong was amazing, mind-blowing, while in Singapore I felt like I could have been walking through a suburb of Sydney, except where the beer cost $12 instead of $6. And from what I understand, Hong Kong is richer than Singapore, and not a unpaved road through a rice paddy in sight. I am planning on going back to HK soon, whereas I don't even plan on going back to Singapore.

scribu 12y ago
I think that's kind of the point the author is making: westerners don't expect Singapore to feel like a western country; they expect it to be "exotic". > And from what I understand, Hong Kong is richer than Singapore No, it's not (according to their respective Wikipedia entries).

mikerichards 12y ago

So everybody and their brother can criticize "the west" (well, specifically the U.S.), but oh no, you westerners need to accept all other cultures carte blanche...because PC and other stuff. This reminds me of "protected classes" in the U.S. and how can they spew all the vitriol they want against white men, republicans, etc...but oh by, if some white guy (especially a right-wing white guy) criticizes a black, a woman, a gay, etc...watch out. The P.C., anti-free speech gestapo at MSNBC and other places will be all over you.

cylinder 12y ago

The Guardian opinion pieces are best ignored.

scribu 12y ago
Why?

m0llusk 12y ago

The suicide rate in Singapore is far too high for this attitude to be tolerable. They have succeeded in burying their dangerous social differences in wealth generating behavior, but at a terrible cost. Talking about the gum issue up front makes sense because so many have heard about that and it is a good example of the kind of decisions that have made Singapore different from other places.