7 ms·

I'm kinda shocked by how many people are saying "they like the poster on the left". The one on the left is a train wreck.

bisrael 12y ago
I'm not. Most programmer-generated interfaces are pretty terrible.
analog31 12y ago
I'm not a designer, but a musician. You can find pairings of performances, where if you put them side by side, the public will choose the one on the left and the musicians will choose the one on the right. The musicians may have funky tastes, but in addition, they're informed by the terminology and theory of analysis.
dhimes 12y ago
I think the one on the right is cleaner, but the font for the text explaining Aikido is easier to read on the left. Hence which one is 'better' is hard for me to decide.
aw3c2 12y ago
It reminds me of cheap local newspapers, I kinda have a positive reaction to it. Definitely feels more down to earth and personal. Professionalism can be a turn-off.
- GhotiFish 12y ago
  I think this is maybe what's going on. There are pragmatic choices that make things easier for us, but every element will have an emotional context as well. It's odd, when I was looking at that aikido ad, I thought I could faintly smell newsprint paper...
  - aw3c2 12y ago
    Yeah, same here. Also I interpret it as a already well-established place, something that has been successfully run for a while. The other one screams "Hi, we are a new institution" which gives me a wary response. It just misses some smiling stockphoto woman. There must be a lot of testing and research in "cheap looking" ads, this might be a great example of the resulting emotional responses.
collyw 12y ago
I like the left hand side of the left one and the right hand side of the right one. Maybe the idea that the right one is more appealing to everyone is a lot more subjective than he would have us believe.
jflatow 12y ago
Your left or my left? Seriously, I assumed he was describing the one on the left for most of the discussion until showing the posters again, when I realized he didn't do his job. The question was "which one looks cleaner?", not "which one makes it easier to find information?", and to my eye the one on the right has more noise (the balance of spacing, border around the image, more varied fonts). I guess there are arguments for both or neither, but it's clearly not cut and dry.
- XorNot 12y ago
  If the design doesn't bring needed information to the fore immediately, then what's the point? The web abounds with bootstrap websites which fail to give any real information.
wampus 12y ago
The important information is larger and more legible in the poster on the left. I can locate the schedule, address, phone number and URL immediately. In the poster on the right, my eye is drawn to the enormous headings, which contain no useful information by themselves. The "Come Visit" heading isn't close enough to the address, and the address/phone/URL has been squeezed into a single block of tiny, fuzzy text. Compare that to the left poster, where each one is distinct from the other. I feel the need to put on my glasses to read the one on the right, but not the one on the left. That alone indicates a major issue and potential loss of audience.
- raverbashing 12y ago
  > The important information is larger and more legible in the poster on the left THIS IS LARGER, SO EASIER TO READ, RIGHT? Font size alone I agree with you (and a light - serif - white text on a black background has some issues with artifacts, which are visible on the flier), but the whole thing is a mess. > In the poster on the right, my eye is drawn to the enormous headings, which contain no useful information by themselves. Yes, it contains. It's an aid to point you to the right section. Because you scan the bigger text first, the first thing most people will read is "Aikido - Beginner classes" then follow the right column > The "Come Visit" heading isn't close enough to the address I agree, this is debatable, one possibility would be to replace it with "Try it" and/or put "Come Visit" or "Visit Us" above the address > and the address/phone/URL has been squeezed into a single block of tiny, fuzzy text This is another heuristical cue and to separate it from the rest of the text.
  - wampus 12y ago
    The thing is, none of those headers are even necessary. For example, replace "Beginner Class" with "AIKIDO", remove the "Regular Classes" and "Come Visit" headings, enlarge the text, and you've already improved the poster. For bonus points, pluralize the days ("Tuesdays 7:30 p.m.") and separate the phone and URL from the address a bit. The point is, the information is self-describing. It doesn't need a header to announce what it is.
jkscm 12y ago
Am I the only one who thinks that the margins of the right one are far worse?They almost negate the better structure.
low_battery 12y ago
To me, the one on the left is better (with a few tiny changes) . Font choice is better, it is more legible and actually it has better balance overall. So I think author "fixed" it too much :)
ilurk 12y ago
Maybe because of anchoring? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring
jabo 12y ago
Here's my theory about why the one on the left looks better to some: Given that this is a physical poster, I think we've come to expect a certain crammed format that we've already learnt how to navigate well (think classifieds). So it no longer feels strange or crammed. Question for those who think the left one is cleaner: what if this was a web page? You need to look at each one zoomed-in one at a time. Would you still consider the left one cleaner?
- wampus 12y ago
  A better test might be: what if this was a street sign? I'd probably have to get out of my car to read the one on the right. If the goal is to convey information quickly and efficiently, I think the left one has the edge.
- Theodores 12y ago
  The word you are looking for is CONVENTION. There are conventions we all know on the web - where your navigation goes etc. - there are also conventions in the real world. The thing about conventions is that you haven't got to re-learn the interface, this also applies with a physical poster. But, yes, same as you, it is familiarity with the format that makes the left one 'better'.
GFischer 12y ago
I'd argue that the one on the RIGHT is a train wreck... if it's a PHYSICAL poster, I want stuff to be readable... how can making every single important point smaller be better? Heck, the one on the left has a much better call to action, it says CALL 603-431-8561 in big letters. The one on the right has the "Come Visit" clearer though. The one on the right might be "cleaner", but I bet that the one on the left converts a LOT better (simply by being more readable).
ovatsug25 12y ago
The important information is not "Beginner Class" but rather "Starts Sunday..."— The right one is better, but absent a bit more emphasis on that, you're not getting anything out of it.
rrock 12y ago
The one on the left really is a train wreck. All the points that are brought up with alignment, grouping, and sizing of related elements are clearly illustrated in these two examples. Not saying the right is perfect, but it's far better than the left. Worth it to reread the article and carefully consider the points if you feel otherwise.
- DanBC 12y ago
  A joke isn't funny if it needs to be explained. A design isn't good if a designer needs to tell me to look again, but look better this time.
  - rrock 12y ago
    Are you saying that design is innate, and can't be learned? I disagree.
    - DanBC 12y ago
      I'm saying that if you need to explain why one flyer is better than another then the design might not be as strong as you think.
      - rrock 12y ago
        Right, so innate it is. Folks who have studied design will be upset to learn this. Again, I'm not saying that this is a perfect example, but the points he makes are valid. I've had to deal with similar issues creating figures and illustrations for scientific manuscripts. Scientists are not great illustrators by and large, although some are. It's worth studying the successful examples, and to adopt their practices.
        sukilot 12y ago
        The point of design is to study and think a lot so that you can create a message that viewers can receive without thinking. Most of the public have not studied design, and they are the ones your design needs to impact. Recognizing good design is innate, but creating and understandin it is not.
novaleaf 12y ago
The right poster has better layout, and is more "beautiful" but less readable. I want to get the important details, not admire the use if indentation and italics.
ams6110 12y ago
I thought the one on the right looked better, but honestly it's just a cosmetic preference. I didn't think the information was any harder to find or parse on the left-hand version... it just looked a bit less "professional."
bane 12y ago
The one on the right is cleaner (even if it appears to be allergic to centering text), the one on the left is better at presenting information in a way that people can find what they're looking for. The poster on the left also has slightly better call to action (CALL 603-431-8560). tbh, neither of them are all that great. The right one introduces a serifed font which clashes with the non-serif fonts everywhere else. From a marketing perspective, Akido is often associated with clean minimalism and serifed fonts are not. The new design also uses generally smaller font sizes, which are hard to read on a poster. This allows for the use of white space to denote sections, but it creates so much white space that the designer struggles to fill it all up with something and introduces a new design element (the brushed circle) to simply fill up space. Where non-serifed fonts are used, they aren't particularly readable, the kerning is off and the weight is too high in general. The leading is also off in quite a few places, particularly between the section headers and the first line of the serifed-font section text. Some more downthread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9282032 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9282032
- jschwartzi 12y ago
  The call to action isn't very useful if it, for example, generates calls from people who didn't read the class schedule to know if they can even take the class. I didn't say "couldn't" because it's an important distinction to make between legibility of the words and our willingness to read them before taking action. I can't speak to whether it would materially impact the effectiveness of the ad in generating leads, but an important aspect in soliciting leads seems to be filtering them. If your potential leads don't know what your criteria are, you're more likely to get calls from people asking basic information like when the classes are, or whether their 10-year old can join. If the ad were structured in a way in which class times and age limits were highlighted, these people likely wouldn't bother calling. You can, of course, simply repeat the information from the flyer over the phone, but if you're wondering why these people are calling to ask those questions in the first place, you might want to look at your ad design. After all, the information is there. It's just that most people see your call to action before they see that other stuff, and so they just call you instead.
  - 12y ago
funkyy 12y ago
I find both bad tbh.
pedalpete 12y ago
What I found interesting was when the one on the left was half below the fold, it appeared much cleaner than the one on the right. Only when viewed in their entirety did I find the one on the right to be cleaner.

bisrael 12y ago

I'm not. Most programmer-generated interfaces are pretty terrible.

analog31 12y ago

I'm not a designer, but a musician. You can find pairings of performances, where if you put them side by side, the public will choose the one on the left and the musicians will choose the one on the right. The musicians may have funky tastes, but in addition, they're informed by the terminology and theory of analysis.

dhimes 12y ago

I think the one on the right is cleaner, but the font for the text explaining Aikido is easier to read on the left. Hence which one is 'better' is hard for me to decide.

aw3c2 12y ago

It reminds me of cheap local newspapers, I kinda have a positive reaction to it. Definitely feels more down to earth and personal. Professionalism can be a turn-off.

GhotiFish 12y ago
I think this is maybe what's going on. There are pragmatic choices that make things easier for us, but every element will have an emotional context as well. It's odd, when I was looking at that aikido ad, I thought I could faintly smell newsprint paper...
- aw3c2 12y ago
  Yeah, same here. Also I interpret it as a already well-established place, something that has been successfully run for a while. The other one screams "Hi, we are a new institution" which gives me a wary response. It just misses some smiling stockphoto woman. There must be a lot of testing and research in "cheap looking" ads, this might be a great example of the resulting emotional responses.

collyw 12y ago

I like the left hand side of the left one and the right hand side of the right one. Maybe the idea that the right one is more appealing to everyone is a lot more subjective than he would have us believe.

jflatow 12y ago

Your left or my left? Seriously, I assumed he was describing the one on the left for most of the discussion until showing the posters again, when I realized he didn't do his job. The question was "which one looks cleaner?", not "which one makes it easier to find information?", and to my eye the one on the right has more noise (the balance of spacing, border around the image, more varied fonts). I guess there are arguments for both or neither, but it's clearly not cut and dry.

XorNot 12y ago
If the design doesn't bring needed information to the fore immediately, then what's the point? The web abounds with bootstrap websites which fail to give any real information.

wampus 12y ago

The important information is larger and more legible in the poster on the left. I can locate the schedule, address, phone number and URL immediately. In the poster on the right, my eye is drawn to the enormous headings, which contain no useful information by themselves. The "Come Visit" heading isn't close enough to the address, and the address/phone/URL has been squeezed into a single block of tiny, fuzzy text. Compare that to the left poster, where each one is distinct from the other. I feel the need to put on my glasses to read the one on the right, but not the one on the left. That alone indicates a major issue and potential loss of audience.

raverbashing 12y ago
> The important information is larger and more legible in the poster on the left THIS IS LARGER, SO EASIER TO READ, RIGHT? Font size alone I agree with you (and a light - serif - white text on a black background has some issues with artifacts, which are visible on the flier), but the whole thing is a mess. > In the poster on the right, my eye is drawn to the enormous headings, which contain no useful information by themselves. Yes, it contains. It's an aid to point you to the right section. Because you scan the bigger text first, the first thing most people will read is "Aikido - Beginner classes" then follow the right column > The "Come Visit" heading isn't close enough to the address I agree, this is debatable, one possibility would be to replace it with "Try it" and/or put "Come Visit" or "Visit Us" above the address > and the address/phone/URL has been squeezed into a single block of tiny, fuzzy text This is another heuristical cue and to separate it from the rest of the text.
- wampus 12y ago
  The thing is, none of those headers are even necessary. For example, replace "Beginner Class" with "AIKIDO", remove the "Regular Classes" and "Come Visit" headings, enlarge the text, and you've already improved the poster. For bonus points, pluralize the days ("Tuesdays 7:30 p.m.") and separate the phone and URL from the address a bit. The point is, the information is self-describing. It doesn't need a header to announce what it is.

jkscm 12y ago

Am I the only one who thinks that the margins of the right one are far worse?They almost negate the better structure.

low_battery 12y ago

To me, the one on the left is better (with a few tiny changes) . Font choice is better, it is more legible and actually it has better balance overall. So I think author "fixed" it too much :)

ilurk 12y ago

Maybe because of anchoring? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring

jabo 12y ago

Here's my theory about why the one on the left looks better to some: Given that this is a physical poster, I think we've come to expect a certain crammed format that we've already learnt how to navigate well (think classifieds). So it no longer feels strange or crammed. Question for those who think the left one is cleaner: what if this was a web page? You need to look at each one zoomed-in one at a time. Would you still consider the left one cleaner?

wampus 12y ago
A better test might be: what if this was a street sign? I'd probably have to get out of my car to read the one on the right. If the goal is to convey information quickly and efficiently, I think the left one has the edge.
Theodores 12y ago
The word you are looking for is CONVENTION. There are conventions we all know on the web - where your navigation goes etc. - there are also conventions in the real world. The thing about conventions is that you haven't got to re-learn the interface, this also applies with a physical poster. But, yes, same as you, it is familiarity with the format that makes the left one 'better'.

GFischer 12y ago

I'd argue that the one on the RIGHT is a train wreck... if it's a PHYSICAL poster, I want stuff to be readable... how can making every single important point smaller be better? Heck, the one on the left has a much better call to action, it says CALL 603-431-8561 in big letters. The one on the right has the "Come Visit" clearer though. The one on the right might be "cleaner", but I bet that the one on the left converts a LOT better (simply by being more readable).

ovatsug25 12y ago

The important information is not "Beginner Class" but rather "Starts Sunday..."— The right one is better, but absent a bit more emphasis on that, you're not getting anything out of it.

rrock 12y ago

The one on the left really is a train wreck. All the points that are brought up with alignment, grouping, and sizing of related elements are clearly illustrated in these two examples. Not saying the right is perfect, but it's far better than the left. Worth it to reread the article and carefully consider the points if you feel otherwise.

DanBC 12y ago
A joke isn't funny if it needs to be explained. A design isn't good if a designer needs to tell me to look again, but look better this time.
- rrock 12y ago
  Are you saying that design is innate, and can't be learned? I disagree.
  - DanBC 12y ago
    I'm saying that if you need to explain why one flyer is better than another then the design might not be as strong as you think.
    - rrock 12y ago
      Right, so innate it is. Folks who have studied design will be upset to learn this. Again, I'm not saying that this is a perfect example, but the points he makes are valid. I've had to deal with similar issues creating figures and illustrations for scientific manuscripts. Scientists are not great illustrators by and large, although some are. It's worth studying the successful examples, and to adopt their practices.
      - sukilot 12y ago
        The point of design is to study and think a lot so that you can create a message that viewers can receive without thinking. Most of the public have not studied design, and they are the ones your design needs to impact. Recognizing good design is innate, but creating and understandin it is not.

novaleaf 12y ago

The right poster has better layout, and is more "beautiful" but less readable. I want to get the important details, not admire the use if indentation and italics.

ams6110 12y ago

I thought the one on the right looked better, but honestly it's just a cosmetic preference. I didn't think the information was any harder to find or parse on the left-hand version... it just looked a bit less "professional."

bane 12y ago

The one on the right is cleaner (even if it appears to be allergic to centering text), the one on the left is better at presenting information in a way that people can find what they're looking for. The poster on the left also has slightly better call to action (CALL 603-431-8560). tbh, neither of them are all that great. The right one introduces a serifed font which clashes with the non-serif fonts everywhere else. From a marketing perspective, Akido is often associated with clean minimalism and serifed fonts are not. The new design also uses generally smaller font sizes, which are hard to read on a poster. This allows for the use of white space to denote sections, but it creates so much white space that the designer struggles to fill it all up with something and introduces a new design element (the brushed circle) to simply fill up space. Where non-serifed fonts are used, they aren't particularly readable, the kerning is off and the weight is too high in general. The leading is also off in quite a few places, particularly between the section headers and the first line of the serifed-font section text. Some more downthread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9282032 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9282032

jschwartzi 12y ago
The call to action isn't very useful if it, for example, generates calls from people who didn't read the class schedule to know if they can even take the class. I didn't say "couldn't" because it's an important distinction to make between legibility of the words and our willingness to read them before taking action. I can't speak to whether it would materially impact the effectiveness of the ad in generating leads, but an important aspect in soliciting leads seems to be filtering them. If your potential leads don't know what your criteria are, you're more likely to get calls from people asking basic information like when the classes are, or whether their 10-year old can join. If the ad were structured in a way in which class times and age limits were highlighted, these people likely wouldn't bother calling. You can, of course, simply repeat the information from the flyer over the phone, but if you're wondering why these people are calling to ask those questions in the first place, you might want to look at your ad design. After all, the information is there. It's just that most people see your call to action before they see that other stuff, and so they just call you instead.
- 12y ago

funkyy 12y ago

I find both bad tbh.

pedalpete 12y ago

What I found interesting was when the one on the left was half below the fold, it appeared much cleaner than the one on the right. Only when viewed in their entirety did I find the one on the right to be cleaner.