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I'm not sure why I would need this when Java EE does most of this already. The Enterprise Edition has made a lot of progress with version 6 and 7 and greatly cl

I'm not sure why I would need this when Java EE does most of this already. The Enterprise Edition has made a lot of progress with version 6 and 7 and greatly cleaned up the XML descriptor nonsense and instead relies on convention over configuration and annotations where necessary. Things like CDI for DI, JAX-RS for webservices and JPA for persistence just work out of the box with minimal configuration. As far as web pages go, JSF works well and is nicely integrated with the other technologies. But server-side web applications are obviously outdated in 2015, you could easily get something like Angular to work with the Java backend and ditch JSF.

tajen 12y ago
Your comment should have been the first one of the discussion page! because it's nice that there's a default standard like Java EE. However... What's painful with Java EE is the time it takes to understand it. Please correct me if I'm wrong, because I've never got around it, but it takes 5 years of experience to build an app using CDI, JAX-RS, JPA, JSF, JNDI. For each of them you need to choose the implementation provider (Hibernate, Jersey if I'm correct?) and configure it, then you get bugs like the application isn't aware of your JPA and you don't know why, because the spec is circonvoluted enough to be powerful but then takes months to understand. Whereas some frameworks like Play Framework can be learnt in 2-5 months. This is my feeling about Java EE, but have I been in bad luck with my experience? Is it supposed to be quick to get a canonical-JEE app running?
- ExpiredLink 12y ago
  > For each of them you need to choose the implementation provider ... or simply use those that come with your certified application server.
- eternalban 12y ago
  To understand JEE you first need to align with the motivation for the platform: distributed component oriented systems for an heterogenous enterprise environment. The second preliminary is to fully grok why indirection is necessary for loosely coupled component systems. JEE is built on a set of canonical indirection layers. The rest is simply a set of orthogonal specs -- none in anyway intellectually or technically challenging. Building a tutorial full stack JEE app should let you see and touch most of these layers from client to backend. It is a good thing that the new hotness in coding is ignoring JEE ..
ExpiredLink 12y ago
> I'm not sure why I would need this when Java EE does most of this already. Exactly. Many people simply don't know what they can get out of the EE box. Even self-proclaimed EE experts never heard of e.g. Web Profile.

tajen 12y ago

Your comment should have been the first one of the discussion page! because it's nice that there's a default standard like Java EE. However... What's painful with Java EE is the time it takes to understand it. Please correct me if I'm wrong, because I've never got around it, but it takes 5 years of experience to build an app using CDI, JAX-RS, JPA, JSF, JNDI. For each of them you need to choose the implementation provider (Hibernate, Jersey if I'm correct?) and configure it, then you get bugs like the application isn't aware of your JPA and you don't know why, because the spec is circonvoluted enough to be powerful but then takes months to understand. Whereas some frameworks like Play Framework can be learnt in 2-5 months. This is my feeling about Java EE, but have I been in bad luck with my experience? Is it supposed to be quick to get a canonical-JEE app running?

ExpiredLink 12y ago
> For each of them you need to choose the implementation provider ... or simply use those that come with your certified application server.
eternalban 12y ago
To understand JEE you first need to align with the motivation for the platform: distributed component oriented systems for an heterogenous enterprise environment. The second preliminary is to fully grok why indirection is necessary for loosely coupled component systems. JEE is built on a set of canonical indirection layers. The rest is simply a set of orthogonal specs -- none in anyway intellectually or technically challenging. Building a tutorial full stack JEE app should let you see and touch most of these layers from client to backend. It is a good thing that the new hotness in coding is ignoring JEE ..

ExpiredLink 12y ago

> I'm not sure why I would need this when Java EE does most of this already. Exactly. Many people simply don't know what they can get out of the EE box. Even self-proclaimed EE experts never heard of e.g. Web Profile.